12 ms·
Electric version of Renault's low-cost Kwid
- kennywinker 7y ago~$10k, 100kms per charge. I'd buy one if it was available outside of china.
- i_am_proteus 7y agoWhat could stop this from being grey-market legal in the US? Usually it's tailpipe emissions, which obviously don't apply.
- dragonwriter 7y ago> What could stop this from being grey-market legal in the US? Impact safety is the usual one besides emissions, which as you note shouldn't be an issue.
- sriram_sun 7y agoHow about spontaneously exploding batteries?
- na85 7y agoThe US auto market already has cars that catch fire randomly.
- djrogers 7y agoMandatory safety features, lack of impact testing, lack of service/repair infrastructure, and an abundance of <10k used electric cars (leafs for example) that do not have these drawbacks.
- jfrankamp 7y agoYou could buy a used leaf today, it has USA safety features, is at that price point (mine cost 9.9k after fees, you can find them now for less) and has more than 100kms range. The leaf is better than this car in a hundred ways.
- superfluousText 7y agoThoughts on how this compares to the Nissan Leaf?
- madengr 7y agoIt's got a little more range than an older Leaf with the ~25 kWh pack, and significantly cheaper for the new price. Then again, you can get a lightly used Leaf for under $10k. I bought a 2015, in 2017, with 19k miles for $8,500. You'll never see it in the USA; costs too little.
- djrogers 7y agoIt doesn't - the leaf is s thoroughly modern vehicle with all of the safety and comfort that implies, whereas this is not.
- rafaelvasco 7y agoAll it takes for EV's to explode and finally surpass combustion cars from the market is to put a low cost, good enough quality electric car in the market. Combustion engines must be put in the past. They're still better in some ways, but that will change.
- squarefoot 7y agoA two seats version of this car with some more range would be a godsend in congested cities. Sort of an electric Smart at half the price.
- hocuspocus 7y agoThe only realistic godsend in congested city would be to ban most privately owned cars.
- kumarvvr 7y agoDefinitely. I would also make it smaller. Reduced weight equals reduced cost and improved range.
- Leherenn 7y agoI think people often ignore charging issues, especially for city cars. Most people live in flats with street parking, there's absolutely no infrastructure existing at the moment to solve the problem that those people cannot charge at night.
- bdamm 7y agoI wonder how big a problem that really is. Folks in flats with street parking also have good access to transit. Cities will become incentivized to convert parking meters to charging stations using street light power. People often can charge at work, and for some cars, rapid charging is an option. Also autonomous driving taxis are coming, despite the challenges, and so more folks might subscribe to a car as a service, either Uber or Zipcar. So between these various changing transport options I wonder if flat dwellers parking their commuting car on the street is something soon to be viewed as an anachronism.
- InTheArena 7y agoBy Edward Niedermeyer September 9, 2019 Oh. Nevermind. ---- Edited - from the downvotes, it appears that people are not aware - this is the same guy who was the editor in chief of truthabout cars when they ran their infamous "Tesla Death Watch" / Tesla killer articles. He constantly re-iterated that the company was doomed before the roadster, then before the S, then before the X, then before the 3. He accused the company of Fraud in 2009, and has heralded every single vehicle from this to the leaf, to the Taycan and i-pace (how's that working for you Audi?) to the Fisker Karma as "tesla-killers". How about articles like this: https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/04/teslas-model-s-ponzi-scheme-rakes-in-26m-at-least/ https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2009/04/teslas-model-s-pon... He's about as accurate as Elon Musk is punctual. He appears to be the natural anti-matter to the most extreme of the Tesla fans. But remember it's Toyota that is actually the disruptor: "Toyota is no stranger to disruption, having overturned the global car business over the course of decades. But rather than high-concept, visionary technology and hype, it was Toyota's mastery of the culture of manufacturing that drove it from bit player to industry titan. Toyota emphasizes kaizen, or continuous improvement, not Musk's mercurial style. And based on a scan of quality complaints at various Tesla owner forums, it seems Musk could learn more from Toyota's automotive disruptions than the other way around. Auto industry success is a marathon, not a sprint ... and at current volumes, Tesla is barely walking."
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- AndrewBissell 7y agoWhat's your issue with this paragraph about Toyota, exactly? I get that kaizen, with its emphasis on boring notions like quality control, slow & careful iteration, etc. is at odds with fashionable Silicon Valley ideas of blitzscaling or an under-five-years "cash out, bro down" company cycle, but it's undeniably true that Toyota did revolutionize the auto industry.
- mikekchar 7y agoIndeed. I'm anxiously waiting Toyota's entry into the EV market. In Japan they have a fair amount of catchup given that the entire fast charging infrastructure is basically being run by Nissan and Mitsubishi... However I'm sure they have something up their sleeves. I'm extremely interested in the fact that Toyota has chosen Panasonic as their battery supplier. Toyota and Panasonic's headquarters are only a little over an hour a way by Shinkansen... If I were Toyota I would be wandering over to Osaka fairly frequently to make sure that my company was getting more than our fair share of the available batteries...
- derekp7 7y agoI'm thinking that these things would be great for when the teenagers need a car (I'm referring to those of us in suburban / rural areas). They need a car to get to their mcjob, but with the limited range they won't be cruising all over and getting into trouble. And the price (esp. for used ones) should be very cheap, and low maintenance.
- disjhshava 7y agoIn the US, you can currently get a used Chevy Spark for below 10k.
- blacksmith_tb 7y agoBut the Spark isn't electric (despite its name). You can however get a used Nissan Leaf EV for under $10K, too.
- davidgould 7y agoBut the Spark EV is electric and used ones are around $10k. I'd argue that the Spark EV at the price is a better choice than an early Leaf at the price due to better battery management. Also they are fun to drive. Source, on my second Spark EV (first was leased).
- TylerE 7y agoYou wouldn’t want your kids driving one of those. They are death traps. NCAP Gabe the Kwid zero stars. https://auto.ndtv.com/news/india-made-renault-kwid-scores-zero-stars-in-asean-ncap-crash-test-1881708 https://auto.ndtv.com/news/india-made-renault-kwid-scores-ze...
- cj 7y agoWait a second... this car doesn't have anti-lock brakes?
- 7y ago
- simonebrunozzi 7y agoI hate the title of this HN post. Why? Because it forces me to click through to read which car the article is talking about. I would have vastly preferred something like this: "electric version of Renault's low-cost Kwid being launched now" I know, I know... The poster simply replicated the title in the actual article. And yet, does it serve HN readers well?
- mereel 7y agoHopefully the admins will edit it to be a little more informative and less clickbaity.
- wmf 7y agoIn some sense it's not worth complaining about this article because most publications seem to have a policy of omitting proper nouns from their headlines. I don't know if it's a form of clickbait or what but it sure does waste the reader's time.
- dang 7y agoFairy godmother at your service.
- simonebrunozzi 7y agoYou rock, as always :)
- falcolas 7y agoBlame ads. You don't get ad revenue if the headline is replicated elsewhere and drives fewer click through; generates fewer impressions of the ads.
- gok 7y agoLow cost EVs will indeed be what kills ICE cars, particularly in the developing world where they can double as general electricity storage. That said: > Just as Tesla has had its doubters among mainstream auto industry-watchers, the electric Renault Kwid has had its doubters among hardcore Tesla fans Unmentioned is that the author of this article is decidedly in the former category, and has been writing about the imminent demise of Tesla since around 2007.
- ineedasername 7y agoHave any cars been able to use their batteries as general purpose "plug in anything" type of power source? That would really expand the appeal significantly.
- kalleboo 7y agoWhat do you mean by "anything"? I haven't heard of any that can, say, power a whole house during a power outage, but plenty of cars (EV and ICE alike) have built-in (or add-on) inverters to plug in typical 120V or 230V devices.
- elif 7y agoUnfortunately, the 12V system in mine is limited to 10 amps. the raw 48V from the battery would have no problem running an AC inverter, but on mine at least, is not accessible
- D_Alex 7y agoYes. https://thedriven.io/2019/07/11/nissan-sees-leaf-as-home-energy-source-says-tesla-big-battery-waste-of-resources/ https://thedriven.io/2019/07/11/nissan-sees-leaf-as-home-ene...
- fyfy18 7y agoNissan has their 'vehicle-to-home' system that does exactly this. As far as I know it's only been released in Japan so far, but all their LEAF cars from the last few years support it. https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/vehicle_to_home.html https://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECHNOLOGY/OVERVIEW/vehicle... https://thedriven.io/2019/07/11/nissan-sees-leaf-as-home-energy-source-says-tesla-big-battery-waste-of-resources/ https://thedriven.io/2019/07/11/nissan-sees-leaf-as-home-ene... https://blog.nissan-global.com/EN/?p=4866 https://blog.nissan-global.com/EN/?p=4866
- pkaye 7y agoHow did the charge it driving across India? I presume charging stations are not yet common nor are there garages there. Did they just slow charge it overnight through some wall outlet?
- adambard 7y agoThe drive across India took place in a non-electric Kwid.
- newnewpdro 7y agoThe Kwid is an ICE vehicle.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- cj 7y agoWhen there are articles about electric cars on HN, I often see people in the comments proclaim that the end of gas cars is near. Serious question: How do electric cars work for people who live in apartments without a dedicated parking spot (street parking only)? Or more common, someone without a garage without an outdoor outlet nearby? Is the assumption that charging stations need to become even more ubiquitous than gas stations (assuming the car needs to charge for longer than people are willing to wait at a charging station)?
- ineedasername 7y agoI've seen people near me add an outdoor outlet to their house, costs a few hundred dollars. I don't know about appartments though. In another few years maybe EV's will be ubiquitous enough for apartment complexes to devote, say, 20% if their spaces to overnight EV charging.
- lumberjack 7y agoCities are already working on building street charging infrastructure. But also those people will very likely be late adopters, or just switch to other kinds of transport. Currently the prime target for EV adoption are better off households who live further out of the city, since they can already afford the switch and sinve they have the larger carbon footprint, anyway.
- koyote 7y agoIt's not just apartments either: Many inner-city (where electric cars make the most sense) houses do not have a dedicated garage (I am talking outside the US here). You would need to have plugs on all residential on-street parking.
- fencepost 7y agoSo powered parking meters? Seems viable at least for cities. You'd also have a substantial amount of parking without those because most drivers wouldn't need to charge daily.
- linuxftw 7y ago
- klingonopera 7y agoI believe easily/quick replaceable/interchangeable batteries is one of the simplest ways to make EVs go mainstream. Yes, I know they weigh a lot, but you could have e.g. 10/20 cells weighing 50 kg each to offset that. In many developing countries, you don't even need to refuel yourself, staff at the gas station are willing to do that for you, so you don't even need to get your hands dirty. I think gas/refueling stations should be backing this idea, before they become non-existent. Long recharge times can thus be avoided. Price-conscious consumers can recharge over-night using a wall socket, keeping grid loads low(er). Aging batteries wouldn't be an issue, and can be replaced, heck, even upgraded! Buy a car with 250km range today, have it go 750km tomorrow, when the tech matures, who knows. ...but all this would require car manufacturers to forgo half the selling price and work together to develop a universal battery cell, so I'm doubting this would ever happen. But I see no loss for the consumer with this strategy though, and believe that this should be highlighted in the public discourse.
- mikeash 7y agoCharging times just aren’t that bad, and they continue to improve. Tesla has a battery swap station on the busy SF-LA route. They shut it down because almost nobody used it.
- klingonopera 7y agoInteresting, I hadn't heard of this yet. I'm guessing nobody used it, because it was for the exclusively for the Model S, which has good range and few owners, and apparently you even needed to make an appointment for it. It's not "refueling", it's "replacing" the battery, what Tesla did. https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-shuts-down-battery-swap-program-for-superchargers/ https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-shuts-down-battery-swap-prog...
- mikeash 7y agoThis was back when the Model S was the only Tesla available in any real numbers. California had a ton of them. They are long range, but not long enough to do SF-LA without charging. Long trips should be the ideal case for battery swaps, because it’s a situation where you really do have to wait for the car, and can’t just charge while you sleep or whatever.
- woodandsteel 7y agoI am a huge Tesla fan, but I agree with the author, this car could turn the world upside down. A few added points. One is this car is not going to bankrupt Tesla. That's because it is selling to different markets. The second is that battery prices keep falling, and so the price of this car will too. The third is that other manufacturers are going to take this car apart and figure out how to make a similar one, so in a few years we will see a whole bunch of them. I have said it before and I will say it again. After many years of wishes and slow progress, the EV revolution is finally starting to take off.
- mark-r 7y agoI had a low-cost Renault once, the 1981 Le Car. Never again.
- icebraining 7y agoWhy? My father had a Le Car (aka Renault 5) and I don't remember any major problems with it.
- braythwayt 7y agon=1, may I introduce a different n=1?
- icebraining 7y agoI'm not trying to disprove their experiences, I'm genuinely wondering what problems the car had.
- mark-r 7y agoIt wasn't that the car had problems per se, it was just that it was so obvious that they had taken cost cutting a touch too far. The manual choke was a good example, you had to remember to engage it before starting the car and gradually turn it off. The tires were held on with only 3 lug nuts. The exhaust manifold came out through the wheel well, which eventually destroyed my car - it developed a leak and started the rustproofing material on fire.
- icebraining 7y agoThanks! I was probably too young to grasp those annoyances, and the car was destroyed in an accident, not by old age.
- keyle 7y agoAnyone else notice how thin the tyres are? Kind of reminds me of the CV 2ch :)
- tibbydudeza 7y agoI don't see the point of own an electric car if your electricity grid is still dependent on base load polluting coal or gas fired power stations. Just that feel good factor of owning a Prius or Tesla without addressing the root cause.
- nekopa 7y agoMaybe so, but it will be easier in the future to change 1 coal powered plant and have millions of electric car driving people overnight become "clean" vs still having to change the coal plant and then convince millions of people to switch to electric cars because they are now finally green to the core. Plus, cities would be nicer if the pollution was just around the plant instead of in every street.
- dx034 7y agoYou still avoid local pollution, noise and overall CO2 emissions are all lower pretty much anywhere in the world. In addition to this, a larger amount of electric cars that can work as storage can help greatly to increase the share of renewables (e.g. by offering lower prices at times of overcapacity). It's a hen-egg problem. You need large storage capacity to enable renewables. But without renewables, storage isn't utilized and therefore not profitable.
- helb 7y agoEven with coal, the pollution is much easier to filter and control at the one big ass stationary plant chimney than at thousands of separate moving car exhaust. And modern filters (both electrostatic and mechanical/pulse-jet) are pretty good.
- jobigoud 7y agoIn many places in the EU you can opt for an electricity provider that "provides" you with renewable-sourced electricity. Basically the provider is buying the amount of electricity you consume from hydro/solar/wind producers instead of coal/nuclear.
- gandalfian 7y ago$8700 for a 30kw/h battery? I suspect you are renting the battery for a monthly fee, common practice with Renault's. Otherwise forget the car just sell the battery on its own.
- rasz 7y agoChinese kWh, Chinese range figures. If you ever bought a 5000mAh 18650 battery from ebay/amazon you know whats going on.
- aitchnyu 7y agoTangential, but why are plug-in series hybrids not selling? They could make better use of anaemic grids in India. For example my office was running on backup power for several hours. I left at 7 pm in the rain, saw linemen climb up a damaged transformer in a narrow congested road where buses zip by. Elsewhere, farmers' pumps blow up transformers. A hybrid could power weekday commutes and maybe 25% of a weekend trip, from private solar panels, well before powerful public grids are installed.
- simonveith123 7y agohttps://tinyurl.com/Lebenslange-Provisionen https://tinyurl.com/Lebenslange-Provisionen
- m-i-l 7y agoSounds like it is aiming to be the car equivalent of the smart feature phone (see "The Hottest Phones for the Next Billion Users Aren’t Smartphones"[0]). Definitely think there could be a big market for this sort of thing in some countries. Although more of a niche in the UK at least, we did have the G-Whiz[0] which cost less than this. Even though production was stopped in 2012, I used to see several regularly where I live until relatively recently. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20562695 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20562695 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REVAi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REVAi