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> Where is the mention of other new programming languages that also fit this category? Where is the mention of Rust? The article is about Ada. If you want to r

by okl 7y ago

> Where is the mention of other new programming languages that also fit this category? Where is the mention of Rust? The article is about Ada. If you want to read about Rust, go read about Rust.

JoshTriplett 7y ago
This article promotes Ada as the right language to use for systems programming; a good comparison would include a description of how it compares to other systems programming languages. History of why the DoD chose it in the 1970s, over the languages of the 1970s, doesn't explain why it's the right choice today. I don't read the comment you're replying to as asking for an article about Rust or any other language. It's interesting to read about Ada, specifically. I would love to see descriptions of what Ada does better than other modern languages for systems programming. "Strong typing" is a feature of many non-C languages, for instance, but types with specific ranges aren't. And the "storage pool" mechanism deserves a more detailed comparison to other memory management approaches.
- blub 7y ago
  bluejekyll does chastise the author for not including their favorite programming language and I don't think that's a legitimate criticism at all. Yes, most systems programming is done in C and C++. Some people even use Rust, I've heard. Doesn't mean that an article has to draw comparisons to these languages. In fact, almost every article comparing programming languages inevitably does a poor job at it because the author most likely is more familiar with one language and then we'd have people criticizing the author because they got X, Y and Z wrong. I have seen this a lot of time on HN. It's simply smart to not compare languages.
  - bluejekyll 7y ago
    If the article had a title of, "Ada is a great language for embedded", then great. But it's implying that Ada is the only language that exists today that can accomplish this task, and that's just not true. Rust is merely one example, and the best I know. And the tooling of these modern languages perhaps are better reasons to use them than Ada. But yes, perhaps I was too critical, it's mainly the title that is a little misleading, and then the content didn't express anything specific about Ada that other languages don't also have.
    - thesuperbigfrog 7y ago
      It may not be obvious from the article title, but the article IS about using Ada for embedded systems programming. Here are the reasons that this is so: 1) The article is on Hackaday, a website for hardware hacking enthusiasts. Most programming articles on the site are geared toward low-level and embedded systems programming. 2) The end of the introduction section of the article ends with the line: "Ada might also be the right choice for your next embedded project." 3) The last section of the article "WHERE TO GO FROM HERE" points the reader to a related article about how to get started with Ada on a PicoRV32 RISC-V core, a small processor typically used in FPGA and ASIC designs, not the usual fare for desktop, server-side, or web programming. Ada was designed for safety-critical, military-grade embedded systems programming. It excels in that domain and while it CAN be used for operating system and application programming, it requires a bit more effort than other programming languages because of the difference in idiomatic approaches and the built-in APIs.
bluejekyll 7y ago
That's not really the point I was making. Ada has been around since the 70's and at that time, was possibly the correct choice to make given the criteria. The question I asked at the end, and the title of this article, is why would I pick Ada today? The best reason I've seen is because it's already passed the hurdles in some industries as being a compliant language for their needs. That might be a good enough reason for some, but it's not one that's important to me.
- blub 7y ago
  That seems like a trick question, because obviously you wouldn't pick Ada, you would pick Rust. And then you would talk about Rust, and mention how great Rust is, perhaps in a thread about Ada, which hadn't mentioned Rust at all. Or a thread about C, or about C++ or even about Go or why not even Python and JavaScript. But seriously now: the author didn't mention Rust because they probably don't even know it exists. I work in embedded and like to ask people offering courses / tooling / services around safety if they support Rust and the only answer I got so far is "no". A lot of those people either don't know about Rust or they don't care, because everyone's using C and C++.
  - steveklabnik 7y ago
    Hackaday has written several articles about Rust, though I don't believe any of them were by this author.
  - vardump 7y ago
    I'd really love to read a fair and comprehensive comparison and review of Ada and Rust. Safety, performance, concurrency, low level ABI compatibility etc. Ada does seem interesting, but all the buzz seems to be about Rust. Perhaps Ada deserves more interest?
    - irundebian 7y ago
      At least a short comparison of Ada/SPARK and Rust: https://www.electronicdesign.com/industrial/rust-and-spark-software-reliability-everyone https://www.electronicdesign.com/industrial/rust-and-spark-s...

by okl 7y ago

> Where is the mention of other new programming languages that also fit this category? Where is the mention of Rust? The article is about Ada. If you want to read about Rust, go read about Rust.

JoshTriplett 7y ago

This article promotes Ada as the right language to use for systems programming; a good comparison would include a description of how it compares to other systems programming languages. History of why the DoD chose it in the 1970s, over the languages of the 1970s, doesn't explain why it's the right choice today. I don't read the comment you're replying to as asking for an article about Rust or any other language. It's interesting to read about Ada, specifically. I would love to see descriptions of what Ada does better than other modern languages for systems programming. "Strong typing" is a feature of many non-C languages, for instance, but types with specific ranges aren't. And the "storage pool" mechanism deserves a more detailed comparison to other memory management approaches.

blub 7y ago
bluejekyll does chastise the author for not including their favorite programming language and I don't think that's a legitimate criticism at all. Yes, most systems programming is done in C and C++. Some people even use Rust, I've heard. Doesn't mean that an article has to draw comparisons to these languages. In fact, almost every article comparing programming languages inevitably does a poor job at it because the author most likely is more familiar with one language and then we'd have people criticizing the author because they got X, Y and Z wrong. I have seen this a lot of time on HN. It's simply smart to not compare languages.
- bluejekyll 7y ago
  If the article had a title of, "Ada is a great language for embedded", then great. But it's implying that Ada is the only language that exists today that can accomplish this task, and that's just not true. Rust is merely one example, and the best I know. And the tooling of these modern languages perhaps are better reasons to use them than Ada. But yes, perhaps I was too critical, it's mainly the title that is a little misleading, and then the content didn't express anything specific about Ada that other languages don't also have.
  - thesuperbigfrog 7y ago
    It may not be obvious from the article title, but the article IS about using Ada for embedded systems programming. Here are the reasons that this is so: 1) The article is on Hackaday, a website for hardware hacking enthusiasts. Most programming articles on the site are geared toward low-level and embedded systems programming. 2) The end of the introduction section of the article ends with the line: "Ada might also be the right choice for your next embedded project." 3) The last section of the article "WHERE TO GO FROM HERE" points the reader to a related article about how to get started with Ada on a PicoRV32 RISC-V core, a small processor typically used in FPGA and ASIC designs, not the usual fare for desktop, server-side, or web programming. Ada was designed for safety-critical, military-grade embedded systems programming. It excels in that domain and while it CAN be used for operating system and application programming, it requires a bit more effort than other programming languages because of the difference in idiomatic approaches and the built-in APIs.

bluejekyll 7y ago

That's not really the point I was making. Ada has been around since the 70's and at that time, was possibly the correct choice to make given the criteria. The question I asked at the end, and the title of this article, is why would I pick Ada today? The best reason I've seen is because it's already passed the hurdles in some industries as being a compliant language for their needs. That might be a good enough reason for some, but it's not one that's important to me.

blub 7y ago
That seems like a trick question, because obviously you wouldn't pick Ada, you would pick Rust. And then you would talk about Rust, and mention how great Rust is, perhaps in a thread about Ada, which hadn't mentioned Rust at all. Or a thread about C, or about C++ or even about Go or why not even Python and JavaScript. But seriously now: the author didn't mention Rust because they probably don't even know it exists. I work in embedded and like to ask people offering courses / tooling / services around safety if they support Rust and the only answer I got so far is "no". A lot of those people either don't know about Rust or they don't care, because everyone's using C and C++.
- steveklabnik 7y ago
  Hackaday has written several articles about Rust, though I don't believe any of them were by this author.
- vardump 7y ago
  I'd really love to read a fair and comprehensive comparison and review of Ada and Rust. Safety, performance, concurrency, low level ABI compatibility etc. Ada does seem interesting, but all the buzz seems to be about Rust. Perhaps Ada deserves more interest?
  - irundebian 7y ago
    At least a short comparison of Ada/SPARK and Rust: https://www.electronicdesign.com/industrial/rust-and-spark-software-reliability-everyone https://www.electronicdesign.com/industrial/rust-and-spark-s...