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Public institutions should be based on an entrance exam and that's it. It shouldn't be competitive, it should be first-come, first-served based on a pass/fail

Public institutions should be based on an entrance exam and that's it. It shouldn't be competitive, it should be first-come, first-served based on a pass/fail score. What about the poor and minorities? College should not be the only route to a middle class life. There should be opportunities for those that are not academically gifted. Additionally, if public schools failed to prepare lower income students to be prepared, that's the problem that needs to be addressed. We should also outlaw all GPAs across secondary and post-secondary schools. It should be pass/fail only.

jcranmer 7y ago
> Public institutions should be based on an entrance exam and that's it. You mean the SAT? The problems with using a single exam as the primary criterion for acceptance is going to be basically the same as the problems with using the SAT--the scores are going to be very heavily correlated with how much money parents can throw at exam prep.
- linuxftw 7y ago
  That's why I said it should be a pass/fail system, not ranked by performance. If you graduated a public school, that should be sufficient enough knowledge to pass the college entrance exam, and spots should be based on first-come, first-served. Either public schools are teaching enough for college level work, or they aren't. You can't have it both ways.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    I feel like you're wilfully ignoring the fact that there is actually a wide range of scholastic aptitude among highschool grads, and more generally among students at any level of education. should the curriculum at every college in the country be watered down until most high school graduates can also matriculate from college?
    - linuxftw 7y ago
      Are you implying the average student is not capable of obtaining a liberal arts degree at an average university? Do we have to continue the traditional college model? Why can't you pay for a class, and have, say, up to a year to finish it without penalty? That would allow people to learn at their own pace. If after the first year, you're not done with your classes, then maybe college isn't for you.
      - leetcrew 7y ago
        > Are you implying the average student is not capable of obtaining a liberal arts degree at an average university? about 70% of US high school students currently enroll in college. [0] of those, about 60% graduate in six years. [1] multiplying these two fractions together yields <50% of high school students graduating college in six years. so without drastically changing the current system (or accounting for choice of major, admittedly), it seems fair to say that the median high school student is not actually capable of attaining a bachelor's degree at a typical university. do we have to continue with the current model? perhaps not, but my intuition is that allowing people to "learn at their own pace" would be more expensive per student. this is just based on my experience as a TA; it is far more work to grade assignments that aren't due on a predefined schedule. to what extent, I am not sure; TA time is not exactly expensive. [0] https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/69-point-7-percent-of-2016-high-school-graduates-enrolled-in-college-in-october-2016.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/69-point-7-percent-of-2016... [1] http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/?level=nation&mode=graph&state=0&submeasure=27 http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/?level=nation&mode=grap...
virgilp 7y ago
Why? It’s a much coarser feedback, doesn’t tell you that you’reno putting in enough feedack, just tells you about catastrophic failure to learn the basics. Unless you want to make “fail’ everything below a B
ip26 7y ago
Congratulations, you've just created eighteen years of nothing but studying to the test in cram school, with family wealth being the strongest single predictor of admission.
- linuxftw 7y ago
  Pass/Fail. I think you're overestimating how difficult the test should be. I think it should be easy enough for almost anyone with a high school diploma to pass it.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    that sounds great, now how do you decide which of the 35,000 qualified applicants get to join the harvard class of 2024?
    - linuxftw 7y ago
      Is harvard public or private? If it's public, you just take the first X applicants. If you don't have room for all of them, either make more room or setup a wait list. Are we saying there's not enough room in public universities to accommodate everyone? There seems to be enough room in secondary schools, and those should have a much high operating cost per student (buses, lunches, etc).
- username90 7y ago
  I grew up in a country where grades or hard numbers from tests is the only admission criteria and your scenario didn't happen, on the contrary several poor minorities were at the top.

jcranmer 7y ago

> Public institutions should be based on an entrance exam and that's it. You mean the SAT? The problems with using a single exam as the primary criterion for acceptance is going to be basically the same as the problems with using the SAT--the scores are going to be very heavily correlated with how much money parents can throw at exam prep.

linuxftw 7y ago
That's why I said it should be a pass/fail system, not ranked by performance. If you graduated a public school, that should be sufficient enough knowledge to pass the college entrance exam, and spots should be based on first-come, first-served. Either public schools are teaching enough for college level work, or they aren't. You can't have it both ways.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  I feel like you're wilfully ignoring the fact that there is actually a wide range of scholastic aptitude among highschool grads, and more generally among students at any level of education. should the curriculum at every college in the country be watered down until most high school graduates can also matriculate from college?
  - linuxftw 7y ago
    Are you implying the average student is not capable of obtaining a liberal arts degree at an average university? Do we have to continue the traditional college model? Why can't you pay for a class, and have, say, up to a year to finish it without penalty? That would allow people to learn at their own pace. If after the first year, you're not done with your classes, then maybe college isn't for you.
    - leetcrew 7y ago
      > Are you implying the average student is not capable of obtaining a liberal arts degree at an average university? about 70% of US high school students currently enroll in college. [0] of those, about 60% graduate in six years. [1] multiplying these two fractions together yields <50% of high school students graduating college in six years. so without drastically changing the current system (or accounting for choice of major, admittedly), it seems fair to say that the median high school student is not actually capable of attaining a bachelor's degree at a typical university. do we have to continue with the current model? perhaps not, but my intuition is that allowing people to "learn at their own pace" would be more expensive per student. this is just based on my experience as a TA; it is far more work to grade assignments that aren't due on a predefined schedule. to what extent, I am not sure; TA time is not exactly expensive. [0] https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/69-point-7-percent-of-2016-high-school-graduates-enrolled-in-college-in-october-2016.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/ted/2017/69-point-7-percent-of-2016... [1] http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/?level=nation&mode=graph&state=0&submeasure=27 http://www.higheredinfo.org/dbrowser/?level=nation&mode=grap...

virgilp 7y ago

Why? It’s a much coarser feedback, doesn’t tell you that you’reno putting in enough feedack, just tells you about catastrophic failure to learn the basics. Unless you want to make “fail’ everything below a B

ip26 7y ago

Congratulations, you've just created eighteen years of nothing but studying to the test in cram school, with family wealth being the strongest single predictor of admission.

linuxftw 7y ago
Pass/Fail. I think you're overestimating how difficult the test should be. I think it should be easy enough for almost anyone with a high school diploma to pass it.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  that sounds great, now how do you decide which of the 35,000 qualified applicants get to join the harvard class of 2024?
  - linuxftw 7y ago
    Is harvard public or private? If it's public, you just take the first X applicants. If you don't have room for all of them, either make more room or setup a wait list. Are we saying there's not enough room in public universities to accommodate everyone? There seems to be enough room in secondary schools, and those should have a much high operating cost per student (buses, lunches, etc).
username90 7y ago
I grew up in a country where grades or hard numbers from tests is the only admission criteria and your scenario didn't happen, on the contrary several poor minorities were at the top.