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In order to be legitimately upset with our government having"shitty allies", you first need to believe in the fiction that our government isn't shitty itself. A

In order to be legitimately upset with our government having"shitty allies", you first need to believe in the fiction that our government isn't shitty itself. A quick browse through history should relieve of such a fantasy. In fact you don't need to look at history. The policy of illegal sanctions begun under the last administration, and now the illegal blockade of Venezuela (which is resulting in the deaths of many civilians) should have you nice and clear-eyed about your government. Once you understand that our government's primary function is to protect and expand markets for the capital class, you cease to be surprised or confused by it's actions. Google the coup instigated in behalf of United fruit. That was over 100 years ago, so none of this is new. Stop reading the New York times or any other mainstream publication for foreign policy opinion or news. Try alternative sites like greyzoneproject or truthdig if you want decent news.

not_a_cop75 7y ago
You should really define shitty. What you are saying is you don't particularly like a country without the ability to actually describe why that is. It's comes off feeling like someone's opinion of their favorite sports team. Certainly, the countries you like do things differently than the ones you want, but you won't even highlight those differences. No, instead it's only bad and good. I'm frankly tired of people that can't describe in real thoughts what makes something great or terrible without falling back on the words that a two year old might make use of to describe their day. Get creative. Go on a verbal tirade and tell me how you really feel. But please stop compressing your thoughts down to good, bad and shitty. If you really want to communicate, please do so. You don't like capitalism? Because you're not making the money? What are the real reasons? You don't like communism? Because of the Gulag Archipelago? Be clear.
- alistproducer2 7y ago
  What part of instigated coups on behalf of a fruit company and illegally killing people I'm Venezuela is unclear? Cause I literally typed those things in my parent comment. Those seem to me to be valid reasons for having issues with a government. It's ironic that a comment trying to persuade others to "get creative" is the comment that seems suspiciously like copypasta.
  - not_a_cop75 7y ago
    So you point to one incident to prove everything that exists about a country must be wrong? How does that logically work? Was there corruption? Yes. Which government doesn't have corruption. Tell me if you know. Well, telling people to hate a country on the basis one one corrupt incident sounds suspiciously like IDF to me. If you think corruption is an issue, then why don't you do something about it, instead of whining that it's bad?
    - carapace 7y ago
      Are you getting in a pissing contest about how many shitty things the US Government has done? Because, let me tell you, that is a contest you are going to lose. I consider myself a patriot, but I don't think that means I should be blind to the errors of my nation, my government. On the contrary, it's hard but important to look clearly at our mistakes, to learn from them and hopefully not repeat them.
      - not_a_cop75 7y ago
        Are you getting in a pissing contest to figure out if the US government has done more wrong things than right things? Because if so, you are going to lose. Good luck practicing open and honestly blatantly hostile criticism of political figures in any other country. Even Europe has squashed things like memes to keep the public from realizing the truth. You're not a patriot. You are a wanna be. People are wrong and corrupt. Governments by and large can only do what we allow them to do. They are simply an amplification of the people underneath it all that are in charge. If you think countries that help companies in their borders are wrong, you're going to have a really hard time with countries that openly steal from and abuse their citizens. You think that the US isn't perfect, Possibly you're right. Tell me about your paradise now. Tell me who is perfect? The reality is that every country optimizes for different things. Which country do you think optimizes the best? Have you been able to find a job there you like, pays you well enough, and to move there? If so, great. If not, maybe there's a reason for that? Maybe you really like the X of one country and the Y of another because the X and Y are those things those countries have optimized best for.
- patthebunny 7y ago
  First off, nobody owes you anything. Second, this you don’t have to come up with a thesis on American foreign policy in central and South America to say it’s been horrible. There are dozens of examples of coups, death squads, treasonously funding said death squads, propping up regimes that commit atrocities because at least they aren’t communist, engaging in unending wars on drugs that cause massive violence, etc... This goes double when the topic of discussion is that the Saudi government murdered a man.
dragonwriter 7y ago
> In order to be legitimately upset with our government having"shitty allies", you first need to believe in the fiction that our government isn't shitty itself. No, you don't. You can be upset about our government being shitty, and hold the shitty allies it chooses to support as one of the many exhibits demonstrating the general shittiness of the government.
- alistproducer2 7y ago
  You're not wrong in that both things can be true at the same time. I think the wording that more accurately describes my thoughts would be "... legitimately surprised."
analog31 7y ago
My government doesn't reflect on me. I'll protest any government that I disapprove of.

not_a_cop75 7y ago

You should really define shitty. What you are saying is you don't particularly like a country without the ability to actually describe why that is. It's comes off feeling like someone's opinion of their favorite sports team. Certainly, the countries you like do things differently than the ones you want, but you won't even highlight those differences. No, instead it's only bad and good. I'm frankly tired of people that can't describe in real thoughts what makes something great or terrible without falling back on the words that a two year old might make use of to describe their day. Get creative. Go on a verbal tirade and tell me how you really feel. But please stop compressing your thoughts down to good, bad and shitty. If you really want to communicate, please do so. You don't like capitalism? Because you're not making the money? What are the real reasons? You don't like communism? Because of the Gulag Archipelago? Be clear.

alistproducer2 7y ago
What part of instigated coups on behalf of a fruit company and illegally killing people I'm Venezuela is unclear? Cause I literally typed those things in my parent comment. Those seem to me to be valid reasons for having issues with a government. It's ironic that a comment trying to persuade others to "get creative" is the comment that seems suspiciously like copypasta.
- not_a_cop75 7y ago
  So you point to one incident to prove everything that exists about a country must be wrong? How does that logically work? Was there corruption? Yes. Which government doesn't have corruption. Tell me if you know. Well, telling people to hate a country on the basis one one corrupt incident sounds suspiciously like IDF to me. If you think corruption is an issue, then why don't you do something about it, instead of whining that it's bad?
  - carapace 7y ago
    Are you getting in a pissing contest about how many shitty things the US Government has done? Because, let me tell you, that is a contest you are going to lose. I consider myself a patriot, but I don't think that means I should be blind to the errors of my nation, my government. On the contrary, it's hard but important to look clearly at our mistakes, to learn from them and hopefully not repeat them.
    - not_a_cop75 7y ago
      Are you getting in a pissing contest to figure out if the US government has done more wrong things than right things? Because if so, you are going to lose. Good luck practicing open and honestly blatantly hostile criticism of political figures in any other country. Even Europe has squashed things like memes to keep the public from realizing the truth. You're not a patriot. You are a wanna be. People are wrong and corrupt. Governments by and large can only do what we allow them to do. They are simply an amplification of the people underneath it all that are in charge. If you think countries that help companies in their borders are wrong, you're going to have a really hard time with countries that openly steal from and abuse their citizens. You think that the US isn't perfect, Possibly you're right. Tell me about your paradise now. Tell me who is perfect? The reality is that every country optimizes for different things. Which country do you think optimizes the best? Have you been able to find a job there you like, pays you well enough, and to move there? If so, great. If not, maybe there's a reason for that? Maybe you really like the X of one country and the Y of another because the X and Y are those things those countries have optimized best for.
patthebunny 7y ago
First off, nobody owes you anything. Second, this you don’t have to come up with a thesis on American foreign policy in central and South America to say it’s been horrible. There are dozens of examples of coups, death squads, treasonously funding said death squads, propping up regimes that commit atrocities because at least they aren’t communist, engaging in unending wars on drugs that cause massive violence, etc... This goes double when the topic of discussion is that the Saudi government murdered a man.

dragonwriter 7y ago

> In order to be legitimately upset with our government having"shitty allies", you first need to believe in the fiction that our government isn't shitty itself. No, you don't. You can be upset about our government being shitty, and hold the shitty allies it chooses to support as one of the many exhibits demonstrating the general shittiness of the government.

alistproducer2 7y ago
You're not wrong in that both things can be true at the same time. I think the wording that more accurately describes my thoughts would be "... legitimately surprised."

analog31 7y ago

My government doesn't reflect on me. I'll protest any government that I disapprove of.