4 ms·

From my understanding, many of the flavored juices contain Vitamin E, which we're just now finding out is potentially deadly when inhaled (hence the recent deat

From my understanding, many of the flavored juices contain Vitamin E, which we're just now finding out is potentially deadly when inhaled (hence the recent deaths). It's a largely unregulated industry already when it comes to safety of peripheral ingredients. Wouldn't it be very costly to start scrutinizing each manufacturer's ingredients? Do you know what you're really getting if you decide to buy some vaping products?

mfoy_ 7y ago
(Related: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/e-cigarette-vaping-lung-damage-1.5270986 https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/e-cigarette-vaping-lung-damag...)
magashna 7y ago
Weren't those only regarding THC cartridges?
- Nuzzerino 7y ago
  "Only" THC cartridges? There are more smokers of marijuana than those of nicotine in some demographics.
  - magashna 7y ago
    You shouldn't conflate nicotine vapes and THC vapes, they're completely different.
freehunter 7y ago
The recent deaths come from vaping THC, not nicotine [1]. Vaping THC is a mostly unregulated industry because cannabis is illegal at the federal level. Most reports call it "vaping related deaths" which is misleading because it's not the substance most people are vaping, the cause of the deaths is mostly unregulated THC vapes. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/health/vaping/indiana-reports-its-first-vaping-related-death-bringing-national-death-n1050741 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/vaping/indiana-reports-its-fi...
- Nuzzerino 7y ago
  The legality of THC has little to do with the fact that ingredients of many household products across the board are not scrutinized to the level of safety that would have prevented this kind of outbreak from happening in the first place. Can you provide any details on what federal agency & team is inspecting nicotine cartridge production lines or imports in the US?
  - freehunter 7y ago
    I'd argue the legality does matter, since people have been vaping nicotine for years without a huge rash of deaths being associated with it, while THC vape carts have started killing people very recently and in increasing numbers. Something about THC carts is more deadly than nicotine carts. Whether anyone is inspecting nicotine carts or not, people aren't dying from nicotine carts and tons more people use nicotine carts than THC carts. Something about THC carts is killing people, while nicotine carts are not. In most of the states where people are dying, THC carts are a black-market item while nicotine carts are available legally. If legal nicotine carts are killing people, the business can be shut down and people held responsible. If black-market THC carts are killing people, the responsible party is not a legal entity that can be easily shut down. Government inspections or not, anything you buy on the black market is inherently more risky than something sold legally through a legal entity.
    - Nuzzerino 7y ago
      This whole argument is built on the premise of the items being black market products, yet I still have trouble understanding what that exactly means here. What is defined as black market? Where is the line drawn, if there is a line? Marijuana was 100% illegal for nearly a century, it's more legal now, yet the deaths are recent. I am very certain that there is some level of consumer bias toward buying supposed "underground lab" vaping products, having a higher amount of trust in them because marijuana is "legal" now. See where this might get confusing?
      - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 7y ago
scriptkiddy 7y ago
> From my understanding, many of the flavored juices contain Vitamin E That is incorrect; specifically the "many" part. Vitamin E Acetate was found is black market(illegal) THC cartridges in the midwest. Vitmain E acetate is used in THC oils to increase potency. Legitimate THC oil producers in legal states do not use Vitmain E Acetate in their oils. Nicotine juices are a completely different industry.There would be no reason for Nicotine juice producers to use Vitamin E acetate. I understand why you would be misinformed though, because the articles on the subject have been very reactionary and exaggerated in order to stir up media frenzy and drive views and clicks.
- Nuzzerino 7y ago
  >I understand why you would be misinformed though, because the articles on the subject have been very reactionary and exaggerated in order to stir up media frenzy and drive views and clicks. It would have been great if we could have had this conversation without going there. One could easily say the same about some of your claims regarding the Vitamin E only being found in black market samples, and only in the midwest. Also, what is defined as a "legitimate" producer? Do you think every company out there that has a product in a supermarket follows every single law and regulation on the books?
  - objectivetruth 7y ago
    One "could easily say" all sorts of stuff, but the parent was correct. You can't suddenly shift the burden of proof to them to defend the nonsense non sequitir "every company out there that has a product in a supermarket follows every single law and regulation on the books."

mfoy_ 7y ago

(Related: https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/e-cigarette-vaping-lung-damage-1.5270986 https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/e-cigarette-vaping-lung-damag...)

magashna 7y ago

Weren't those only regarding THC cartridges?

Nuzzerino 7y ago
"Only" THC cartridges? There are more smokers of marijuana than those of nicotine in some demographics.
- magashna 7y ago
  You shouldn't conflate nicotine vapes and THC vapes, they're completely different.

freehunter 7y ago

The recent deaths come from vaping THC, not nicotine [1]. Vaping THC is a mostly unregulated industry because cannabis is illegal at the federal level. Most reports call it "vaping related deaths" which is misleading because it's not the substance most people are vaping, the cause of the deaths is mostly unregulated THC vapes. [1] https://www.nbcnews.com/health/vaping/indiana-reports-its-first-vaping-related-death-bringing-national-death-n1050741 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/vaping/indiana-reports-its-fi...

Nuzzerino 7y ago
The legality of THC has little to do with the fact that ingredients of many household products across the board are not scrutinized to the level of safety that would have prevented this kind of outbreak from happening in the first place. Can you provide any details on what federal agency & team is inspecting nicotine cartridge production lines or imports in the US?
- freehunter 7y ago
  I'd argue the legality does matter, since people have been vaping nicotine for years without a huge rash of deaths being associated with it, while THC vape carts have started killing people very recently and in increasing numbers. Something about THC carts is more deadly than nicotine carts. Whether anyone is inspecting nicotine carts or not, people aren't dying from nicotine carts and tons more people use nicotine carts than THC carts. Something about THC carts is killing people, while nicotine carts are not. In most of the states where people are dying, THC carts are a black-market item while nicotine carts are available legally. If legal nicotine carts are killing people, the business can be shut down and people held responsible. If black-market THC carts are killing people, the responsible party is not a legal entity that can be easily shut down. Government inspections or not, anything you buy on the black market is inherently more risky than something sold legally through a legal entity.
  - Nuzzerino 7y ago
    This whole argument is built on the premise of the items being black market products, yet I still have trouble understanding what that exactly means here. What is defined as black market? Where is the line drawn, if there is a line? Marijuana was 100% illegal for nearly a century, it's more legal now, yet the deaths are recent. I am very certain that there is some level of consumer bias toward buying supposed "underground lab" vaping products, having a higher amount of trust in them because marijuana is "legal" now. See where this might get confusing?
    - 9wzYQbTYsAIc 7y ago

scriptkiddy 7y ago

> From my understanding, many of the flavored juices contain Vitamin E That is incorrect; specifically the "many" part. Vitamin E Acetate was found is black market(illegal) THC cartridges in the midwest. Vitmain E acetate is used in THC oils to increase potency. Legitimate THC oil producers in legal states do not use Vitmain E Acetate in their oils. Nicotine juices are a completely different industry.There would be no reason for Nicotine juice producers to use Vitamin E acetate. I understand why you would be misinformed though, because the articles on the subject have been very reactionary and exaggerated in order to stir up media frenzy and drive views and clicks.

Nuzzerino 7y ago
>I understand why you would be misinformed though, because the articles on the subject have been very reactionary and exaggerated in order to stir up media frenzy and drive views and clicks. It would have been great if we could have had this conversation without going there. One could easily say the same about some of your claims regarding the Vitamin E only being found in black market samples, and only in the midwest. Also, what is defined as a "legitimate" producer? Do you think every company out there that has a product in a supermarket follows every single law and regulation on the books?
- objectivetruth 7y ago
  One "could easily say" all sorts of stuff, but the parent was correct. You can't suddenly shift the burden of proof to them to defend the nonsense non sequitir "every company out there that has a product in a supermarket follows every single law and regulation on the books."