5 ms·

That's why we need universal basic income

by matz1 7y ago

Someone1234 7y ago
UBI is an interest concept but it wouldn't solve this. If you go from e.g. $5K/month (job) to $1K/month (UBI) you'd still have to adjust your living standards (and if people expect to lose their jobs, even with UBI, they'd still make more cautious decisions which would still trigger the same indicators). UBI and other social safety nets are "good ideas." But they aren't a one size fits all solution to every problem. It won't restore consumer confidence.
- matz1 7y ago
  Still better than going from $5k/month to $0k/month. No solution are one size fit all solution to every problem. What is your point?
  - Someone1234 7y ago
    That with UBI we'd still be in exactly the same position as now? Your point was that UBI would somehow play a relevant role in low consumer confidence. I am pointing out that may not be the case.
    - matz1 7y ago
      How is exactly the same? $1k>$0k. With basic income, I for example for sure will be less anxious if i know that if I lose my job now, I still have some income.
      - dragontamer 7y ago
        US Workers have unemployment checks, food stamps, and Medicaid. No one is hitting $0 / month unless you're out of a job for over 6-months (when some unemployment benefits run out). If a lot of people are unemployed for over 6 months unemployment benefits can often be extended by the legislature.
        matz1 7y ago
        Basic income doesn't replace health care. unemployment checks, food stamps require waiting time, hoops, paperwork. Even then there is still some chance to be denied. There is no 6-month limitation on basic income.
  - war1025 7y ago
    You don't go to 0k/month. For as much as people like to hate on the American safety net, it does exist.
    - ModernMech 7y ago
      It really is a net though; there are a lot of holes in it that are easier to fall through than you think. I've been caught by the net once, but in another situation I've fallen through it, and it's really hard to get back up from that.
    - matz1 7y ago
      The safety net that exist right now require waiting time, a lot of hoop and paperwork to get approved.
- transreal 7y ago
  The point of UBI isn't that you will live off of $1000/month. Americans generally don't want to live off the government dole, they want to work hard. Perhaps they want to start their own businesses and live the American dream of self sufficiency. But for most, this is out of the question unless you come from a well to do family, so you are forced to work a crappy job for many years just so you and your family don't starve. If everyone gets UBI, you suddenly have choices. You can finally start that business you've been dreaming about if your family invests their UBI in you for some time, or if you get 10 friends together (if you have no family). And if the business fails, you're not suddenly in debt to a bank and having to declare bankruptcy and ruining your credit. Or if starting a business is not for you, you can feel free to tell your boss you're unhappy, because if you're fired, you're not suddenly unable to pay rent (depending on where you live, you may need to save up a few months of UBI for this). You won't be so mentally distraught at the idea of 0 income, and corporations won't be able to so brazenly take advantage of workers, keeping them on their toes with the constant threat of the axe falling down because quarterly profits were down 10%.
  - dragontamer 7y ago
    Starting a new business during a recession is a fool's game. The problem with a recession is that everyone has collectively decided to buy less stuff. People are buying less stuff, which means factories need to make fewer items, which means people get fired, which causes more people to buy less stuff. It also means that banks are less willing to fund new businesses, and shareholders are less willing to buy up IPOs / etc. etc. Investors "flight to safety" and buy up US Treasuries, while selling off "risky" properties. Causing stock prices to drop, IPOs to fail, and the overall mechanisms of growth to taper off. UBI "solves" social issues, but doesn't seem to be a solution to the economic / recession issue. If a recession hits, there's pretty much nothing you can do about it. At the moment, there are some severely mixed signals: manufacturing seems to be in decline, agriculture is also in decline. Futhermore, the yield curve has inverted. On the other hand: the unemployment rate remains low and general investor sentiment also seems high. Investors are still investing into risky businesses and focusing on a "Growth model" (see Uber, Lyft, Tesla, etc. etc.). So some people are optimistic, while others are growing pessimistic. Its hard to tell if a recession is on the way.

That's why we need universal basic income

by matz1 7y ago

That's why we need universal basic income

UBI is an interest concept but it wouldn't solve this. If you go from e.g. $5K/month (job) to $1K/month (UBI) you'd still have to adjust your living standards (and if people expect to lose their jobs, even with UBI, they'd still make more cautious decisions which would still trigger the same indicators). UBI and other social safety nets are "good ideas." But they aren't a one size fits all solution to every problem. It won't restore consumer confidence.

matz1 7y ago
Still better than going from $5k/month to $0k/month. No solution are one size fit all solution to every problem. What is your point?
- Someone1234 7y ago
  That with UBI we'd still be in exactly the same position as now? Your point was that UBI would somehow play a relevant role in low consumer confidence. I am pointing out that may not be the case.
  - matz1 7y ago
    How is exactly the same? $1k>$0k. With basic income, I for example for sure will be less anxious if i know that if I lose my job now, I still have some income.
    - dragontamer 7y ago
      US Workers have unemployment checks, food stamps, and Medicaid. No one is hitting $0 / month unless you're out of a job for over 6-months (when some unemployment benefits run out). If a lot of people are unemployed for over 6 months unemployment benefits can often be extended by the legislature.
      - matz1 7y ago
        Basic income doesn't replace health care. unemployment checks, food stamps require waiting time, hoops, paperwork. Even then there is still some chance to be denied. There is no 6-month limitation on basic income.
- war1025 7y ago
  You don't go to 0k/month. For as much as people like to hate on the American safety net, it does exist.
  - ModernMech 7y ago
    It really is a net though; there are a lot of holes in it that are easier to fall through than you think. I've been caught by the net once, but in another situation I've fallen through it, and it's really hard to get back up from that.
  - matz1 7y ago
    The safety net that exist right now require waiting time, a lot of hoop and paperwork to get approved.
transreal 7y ago
The point of UBI isn't that you will live off of $1000/month. Americans generally don't want to live off the government dole, they want to work hard. Perhaps they want to start their own businesses and live the American dream of self sufficiency. But for most, this is out of the question unless you come from a well to do family, so you are forced to work a crappy job for many years just so you and your family don't starve. If everyone gets UBI, you suddenly have choices. You can finally start that business you've been dreaming about if your family invests their UBI in you for some time, or if you get 10 friends together (if you have no family). And if the business fails, you're not suddenly in debt to a bank and having to declare bankruptcy and ruining your credit. Or if starting a business is not for you, you can feel free to tell your boss you're unhappy, because if you're fired, you're not suddenly unable to pay rent (depending on where you live, you may need to save up a few months of UBI for this). You won't be so mentally distraught at the idea of 0 income, and corporations won't be able to so brazenly take advantage of workers, keeping them on their toes with the constant threat of the axe falling down because quarterly profits were down 10%.
- dragontamer 7y ago
  Starting a new business during a recession is a fool's game. The problem with a recession is that everyone has collectively decided to buy less stuff. People are buying less stuff, which means factories need to make fewer items, which means people get fired, which causes more people to buy less stuff. It also means that banks are less willing to fund new businesses, and shareholders are less willing to buy up IPOs / etc. etc. Investors "flight to safety" and buy up US Treasuries, while selling off "risky" properties. Causing stock prices to drop, IPOs to fail, and the overall mechanisms of growth to taper off. UBI "solves" social issues, but doesn't seem to be a solution to the economic / recession issue. If a recession hits, there's pretty much nothing you can do about it. At the moment, there are some severely mixed signals: manufacturing seems to be in decline, agriculture is also in decline. Futhermore, the yield curve has inverted. On the other hand: the unemployment rate remains low and general investor sentiment also seems high. Investors are still investing into risky businesses and focusing on a "Growth model" (see Uber, Lyft, Tesla, etc. etc.). So some people are optimistic, while others are growing pessimistic. Its hard to tell if a recession is on the way.