7 ms·

The United States is weird in that you are defined, here, by your job or profession. TV shows put your job title under your name when you appear on them. People

• dominotw 7y ago
  > When I'm in Europe, people ask where you're from, what's for dinner, and what's happening? The question of your job is rarely asked up front, I find. Meh, I don't agree with this observation. This is true in america too. > US doesn't value human life It does. US is the biggest aid provider in the world. You can put a cynical spin on the motivations behind that but even a regular US citizen gives more to chairty than anywhere else in the world. US is also the biggest pharma innovator in the world. Since we are throwing out wild theories. here is mine. Software kinds in europe are jealous of high wages in USA and try to justify their pitiful pay by attributing themselves with some sort of moral superiority. " I might be poor but atleaest I have a good heart"
• Ididntdothis 7y ago
  " It's how Americans define themselves, which, in the end, generally comes down to how the US doesn't value human life, only the potential earnings thereof." I agree with your observations but this conclusion goes way too far.
  • Miner49er 7y ago
    Maybe from that one data point. But in general, it's very clear that the U.S. favors GDP over human life. There's plenty of data and examples to prove it. The price of medication, the cost of healthcare, homelessness, the people we kill in the Middle East, etc.
    • deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    • cal5k 7y ago
      And yet, America is directly responsible for the lifting of a billion people out of poverty through trade - far more than any social assistance program in history.
      • Miner49er 7y ago
        Not because of any value for human life. The economy only cares about human life insomuch as a person's productivity and spending power.
      • oblio 7y ago
        Didn't the US have only about 330 million people or so?
        • magduf 7y ago
          You seem to be forgetting the billions of people in China. Who do you think buys most of the stuff China exports?
          • oblio 7y ago
            There's not "billions of people in China", there's about 1 billion and 400 million. That's a minor nitpick compared to my other points though. China exports worldwide, see these examples: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_partners_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_trading_pa... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Brazil https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Brazil It's not just the US buying from them. Everyone's buying Chinese goods and services. More than that, the US didn't raise anyone in China out of poverty. Like it didn't raise South Koreans or Iraqis or Aghans or Germans, etc. The Chinese raised China out of poverty. Nobody's buying Chinese goods out of the goodness of their hearts, they're buying it because they're cost effective. They're buying them quite rationally. The only thing the US did was allow them to trade, which we go by American values, should be a sort of universal human right. Now that the US is getting the short end of the stick, should we suddenly become hypocrites and say that China's abusing the system the US used and abused for so long? :-)
  • tombert 7y ago
    I was about to write the same thing. Maybe I'm just being defensive as an American, but I feel like the reason that we tend to define ourselves by what we do tends to be that we put a lot of emphasis on taking pride in our work. I would agree that this is probably done too much, since I was being drilled on what I want to do for a living even in grade school, but I don't know that the conclusion of "omg Americans don't value human life" logically follows. The only conclusion that I think can be reasonably drawn is "Americans sure seem to put a lot of value on work".
    • bluntfang 7y ago
      Or it puts an emphasis on our social class, creating an immediate hierarchy to those who don't have the choice to have such a prestigious job.
      • tombert 7y ago
        Sure, fair enough, I wouldn't disagree with that, but that still doesn't inherently mean that Americans are "anti-human".
  • badrequest 7y ago
    a hit dog'll holler
  • AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    I don't think the conclusion is that far off, actually. Ask Americans why they are so afraid of things like single payer and you'll see how quickly they place a dollar value on human life. Most especially the lives of people different from them.
    • tombert 7y ago
      I'm for single-payer, but when I've asked my grandmother about why she doesn't want it, she has said "the government wouldn't do it right, the free market can do it better". I completely disagree with her, and I think she's measurably incorrect about that, but that's not an anti-human stance.
      • AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
        Try asking her to elaborate on how the government would screw it up.
        • tombert 7y ago
          I did; she gave abstract examples of "look at the post office" or "look at the DMV", which I guess in her mind are examples of government inefficiency. I don't really talk to her anymore due to her saying some really horribly racist stuff about my wife a couple years ago, so I'm afraid I won't be able to get her to elaborate more.
• brightball 7y ago
  I think it’s a bit of a leap to go from people identifying themselves by their profession to not valuing human life as a country.
  • jefurii 7y ago
    Ask someone who doesn't have a job how they feel about that statement. [Clarification: I have a job but like a lot of people have had times when I was without one].
    • Konnstann 7y ago
      I've gone through periods of unemployment and will still answer with my profession, with the caveat that I'm looking for work. Just because you aren't currently working doesn't mean what you "do" has changed. People are usually looking for your background or ambitions, not necessarily occupation.
  • asdkhadsj 7y ago
    Agreed. Though, I don't think it's incorrect. For that, merely see our poor, our community programs, etc. I'm shocked we have Medicare to be honest. Though, it's been highly debated for quite some time, so we only barely have it, and many would prefer we didn't have it. (at least, until they themselves get old...)
  • peteey 7y ago
    The cynicism is uncalled for. The culture of places are not so well defined in America. It is a new nation of immigrants. Europeans may have lived in the same towns for hundreds or thousands of years. American is less than 250 years old. Americans identify as individuals. An individual is identified by personal accomplishments or work. Alternatively, a group identity might define a person by location or family name. The root question "who are you?" is asked depending on what approach you take. Identity is a subjective social construct; neither approach is more right than the other.
    • jriot 7y ago
• flatline 7y ago
  Work gives our lives meaning. There may be other sources of meaning but work is a big one. It’s a service we do for others, even though we may have self-interest in financial, emotional, intellectual, or other forms of compensation.
  • AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    Speak for yourself. I don't feel like I find any significant meaning in my job, it's just what I do because I need money.
  • tetraca 7y ago
    You've been had. Work is a calculated tradeoff of time to support/gather wealth yourself, your loved ones, and your heirs to ensure your line's continued security; you can't use it as a complete meaning unto itself, or as a way to offset the guilt of a life of completely empty hedonism. In industrialized work, there is nothing special to what you do for the world, and you won't be missed but for the immediate moment when you are gone. It's something you can have fun doing, and perhaps have pride in doing well, but how many websites you made that were thrown away within 5 years won't give you any peace on your death bed.
• selimthegrim 7y ago
  In New Orleans, “what do you do?” was definitely less common as an opening question before the storm. Unfortunately, it was and often still is usually replaced with “Where did you go to high school?”
• nowandlater 7y ago
  I might add that this might be specific to the kind of circles you run in. Either way, this conclusion is far too absolute and a hasty generalization.
• ProAm 7y ago
  > generally comes down to how the US doesn't value human life That's a pretty big leap from making small talk with a stranger to how one views existence.
• munificent 7y ago
  > People's first question is always "What do you do?" at parties and at events. ... When I'm in Europe, people ask where you're from A charitable interpretation is that it's better to ask someone about an aspect of themselves they control over one that was a product of purely random chance. Both tell you many things about the person, but the former gives the person more influence over how they are perceived. I grew up in the South. If you ask where I'm from and I tell you that, it brings a whole pile of baggage to mind some of which I may not want to be associated with. But there's nothing I can do about that. It is where I'm from. Ask me what I do, though, and at least the answer is to some degree a thing that I chose.
  • magduf 7y ago
    This is a good point. I'm in the exact same boat: I'm from the South too, which isn't something I'm proud of at all, and I occasionally get comments asking why I don't speak with a Southern accent (my parent intentionally adopted a Midwestern English speaking style, and I also intentionally avoided picking up any such accent, plus I grew up in places with more kids who had migrated there from out-of-state). I really don't want to be known for where I came from, but what I've done with my life, which I find far more interesting (being the first person in my family to graduate from a 4-year university).
    • dx87 7y ago
      My wife is from the South, and she decided not to have a southern accent either, even though it occasionally comes out when she spends a week visiting family. She did grad school in Maryland, and she's told me about college professors assuming she was stupid once they found out she was from the south. She rarely lets people know that she's originally from the South if she doesn't know them well.
    • munificent 7y ago
      > I'm from the South too, which isn't something I'm proud of at all I get that feeling. I live on the West Coast and spend a lot of time online and, man, the number of supposedly progressive, tolerant liberals who are willing to completely shit on an entire group of people based on where they were born or their accent is astonishingly large. There's some real cognitive dissonance around this. They'd never criticize someone for being born in a third-world country, or speaking in black vernacular English. But they're happy to joke that every Alabamian commits incest and every person who says "ain't" is an ignorant dipshit. There are many legitimate things to dislike about the South, just like there are many legitimate things to dislike about every region, culture, and people. But I don't think it's fair or healthy to feel shame about being from the South. First of all, there's no sense in shame for something you don't control. You didn't commit an original sin by choosing to be born from there. More importantly, though, being from the South is an important piece of the holistic sum that is you and you shouldn't feel ashamed for who you are. You're allowed to like your whole self. Also, there's a lot of stuff that's actually pretty great about the South. People may be less kind to out-groups there, but they are conversely more helpful for members of in-groups. Get a flat tire and my hunch is someone will pull over to help you sooner in Mississippi than in New York. Outside of the South, there is a greater tolerance at the group level. People strive hard to not be racist, sexist, etc. But they are more willing to shun individuals to who don't precisely fit into the proper culture mold. In the South, my experience is that people are more understanding and forgiving of individual transgressions and idiosyncracies. Also, the South has the best food.
• blhack 7y ago
  These silly “American bad Europe good” comments always find their way into these discussions, and they are as uninsightful as “if you aren’t the customer you’re the product!”. An equally uncharitable interpretation is: American culture, unlike European, places incredible value on personal agency. We ask each other “what do you do” because we actually have the socially enforced freedom to choose what the answer to the question is. It’s always shocked me how little freedom Europeans have in choosing the course of their own lives. You can see this playing out when they don’t even bother to ask each other what they do for a living (it’s a taboo to ask because most Europeans hate their jobs). This, of course, is absurd. People all over the world ask each other what they do because it’s useful information to know how somebody spends their time, and may provide additional conversation topics.
  • jxub 7y ago
    Interesting double take on the situation
  • bluntfang 7y ago
    >We ask each other “what do you do” because we actually have the socially enforced freedom to choose what the answer to the question is. No we don't, or at least most people don't. People of disenfranchised communities don't choose to not go to college or get a job in software development. This makes up most people.
    • dx87 7y ago
      Saying that if people had a choice they'd go to college or get a job as a software developer is quite an assumption. There's nothing wrong with wanting to go to do something like a trade school. I've got some younger cousins that are earning the same amount as apprentice electricians as my wife with a masters degree.
      • bluntfang 7y ago
        This is a strawman. Disenfranchised communities don't have a choice to go to a trade school either. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_poverty https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_poverty
• bdamm 7y ago
  Many places in Europe also organize themselves into castes based on education, and the second question will then be "where did you go to school". Some places will even triage your quality of hospital care based on what degree you have attained. I'll take the US approach, thanks.
• kinkrtyavimoodh 7y ago
  "people ask where you're from" There's a trope in India where, especially if you look like you are from a lower social caste, people ask you your name, and if you reply with just your first name, insist on knowing your last name, which is of course a primary caste marker for a lot of people. Asking where someone's from is no different. The answer can be used to silently judge the other person based on the zillion subtle class distinction Europe has, and worse, can't be controlled by an individual, just as you did just now to judge Americans with some hand-wavy pop-sociology. I can't change where I am from, but I have some control on what I do.
  • chupa-chups 7y ago
    I am also occasionally asking where someone is from (I'm from europe) and I do this to learn about the (to me) probably unknown culture. If I feel someone could be offended by asking this, I won't do it.
• telchar 7y ago
  FWIW, asking someone where they're from can have really negative connotations. It sounds like "you're not one of us" to a lot of people. In the US it's an ideal not to judge someone by where they're from (sadly many do just that), but rather accept that they're here now and that's the important part. So while it can make for good conversation to learn more about a person's background, the topic is often avoided at first to avoid insinuating that the questioner is prejudiced against certain backgrounds. If more people actually held to that ideal, this probably wouldn't be as necessary, but there it is.
• alistairSH 7y ago
  People's first question is always "What do you do?" at parties and at events. I've found that to be a coastal thing, not an American thing. In Denver, "what do you do?" is likely to elicit a response like "I rock climb" and not "I'm a developer."
  • dkjshfajskdfa 7y ago
    This has also been my experience.
• baxtr 7y ago
  Europe is not one thing, and so is America not one culture. Spanish friends moving to Germany often complain how the first question on any party is: so what do you do for a living. Well, and that’s in southern Germany. The north might be different.
• GhettoMaestro 7y ago
  Lol. Funny how someone thinks Europe values human life more than the United States. A light skimming history books would do you wonders. Europe has killed scores more.
• jriot 7y ago
  This is partially true. I recently moved back to southern Louisiana as all my family lives and is from here. One major difference I've noticed, not once have I been asked what I do for a living. No one ever talks about work or what they do. The culture down here is certainly different from the rest of the United States. Granted I've primarily lived in various areas of the Pacific North West but traveled throughout.