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Yes? Why do you think we need things like minimum wage and OSHA? Because there are desperate people and people who exploit them.

by jeltz 7y ago

umvi 7y ago
> Yes? Why do you think we need things like minimum wage and OSHA? Because there are desperate people and people who exploit them. Nobody is intentionally exploiting anybody; desperate people exploit themselves. So the solution is either gatekeeping or rate limiting. a) only allow people that meet a minimum economic status to make money from the app. b) limit the amount of money/time that can be spent on the app so it is clear the intent is not to provide full-benefits careers.
DataWorker 7y ago
That’s why capitalists love immigration and outsourcing. Desperation lowers operating costs.
vasilipupkin 7y ago
you can’t mix all things together as an argument for some unrelated third thing. Yes, we need OSHA which has nothing to do with the fact that people are choosing on their own to drive for Uber because it is convenient for them. If you classify them as employees, many of them won’t be able to do the thing they are voluntarily choosing to do.
- lazyasciiart 7y ago
  They are all the same category of things - making it illegal for a person to work in a job that they are volunteering to take. Maybe it's illegal because the pay is below minimum wage, maybe it's because they are doing something without following the safety requirements of OSHA. Some people think this is a sign that minimum wage/child labor laws/any such restriction should be removed. Others, like myself, think that it should be possible for everyone to have better options available so that nobody does want to work for scraps.
  - vasilipupkin 7y ago
    “The same category of things” still doesn’t make it relevant. It’s obviously not illegal in the US to drive a taxi cab and cab drivers do not make any more money than Uber drivers. The issue is that if someone wants to earn part time income, Uber provides a great option. And these rules would destroy that option. I really don’t know why people cannot be left to make this decision for themselves.
  - wozniacki 7y ago
    From looking at the condition of the drivers and the cabs they maintained before the arrival of Uber & Lyft, I don't think NYC's medallion system (or its equivalent in other cities) were following any modest safety requirements that were in place back then. People loved these ride-hailing apps because of how lousy the typical taxi cab experience was for most people. ~ Most of the drivers were not native English speakers and would not put any effort into conducting their business genially. ~ They would refuse to take credit cards despite having card readers or would disable them to take cash. ~ At late hours you were at the mercy of the dispatcher (from the central office) if they would send a taxi at all or if the driver would take your business instead of ditching you to pickup passengers for longer (and more profitable) trips. ~ There was zero accountability in a whole host of areas like that.
    - bt848 7y ago
      There were always computer-dispatched car services in New York, decades before Uber. The reason people prefer Uber is because Computer Car costs $60 to go to the airport and Uber, by contracting with desperate amateurs and their unmaintained jalopies, undercuts their price.
      - aeorgnoieang 7y ago
        Those services were, and still are, much worse than Uber and the like. They're not bad in any absolute sense; just relatively bad. I'm pretty sure they weren't and aren't "computer-dispatched" in the same way Uber and the like are either. For one, you almost always had and have to speak to a person by phone, and often more than once, e.g. to receive updates about when a driver could be expected to arrive.
applecakes24 7y ago
Some of the people on this website are insanely cloistered lol holy cow. Those dang desperate (read: poor) people ruin everything!
repolfx 7y ago
You don't actually need a minimum wage, as it's a very recent invention. Things worked fine before that was introduced. And do you really have to assume employers always "exploit" employees? That's the basic idea of communism and it's always a disaster. Employers don't exploit labour. It's a trade that leaves both sides better off.
- zxcvbn4038 7y ago
  Yes, was a problem long before Marx came around. Since recorded history and probably even earlier then that. That’s just human history, I’m pretty sure there are types of both ants and bees that enslave other insects and make them maintain their colonies.
- maxehmookau 7y ago
  > Employers don't exploit labour. lol

Yes? Why do you think we need things like minimum wage and OSHA? Because there are desperate people and people who exploit them.

by jeltz 7y ago

Yes? Why do you think we need things like minimum wage and OSHA? Because there are desperate people and people who exploit them.

umvi 7y ago

> Yes? Why do you think we need things like minimum wage and OSHA? Because there are desperate people and people who exploit them. Nobody is intentionally exploiting anybody; desperate people exploit themselves. So the solution is either gatekeeping or rate limiting. a) only allow people that meet a minimum economic status to make money from the app. b) limit the amount of money/time that can be spent on the app so it is clear the intent is not to provide full-benefits careers.

DataWorker 7y ago

That’s why capitalists love immigration and outsourcing. Desperation lowers operating costs.

vasilipupkin 7y ago

you can’t mix all things together as an argument for some unrelated third thing. Yes, we need OSHA which has nothing to do with the fact that people are choosing on their own to drive for Uber because it is convenient for them. If you classify them as employees, many of them won’t be able to do the thing they are voluntarily choosing to do.

lazyasciiart 7y ago
They are all the same category of things - making it illegal for a person to work in a job that they are volunteering to take. Maybe it's illegal because the pay is below minimum wage, maybe it's because they are doing something without following the safety requirements of OSHA. Some people think this is a sign that minimum wage/child labor laws/any such restriction should be removed. Others, like myself, think that it should be possible for everyone to have better options available so that nobody does want to work for scraps.
- vasilipupkin 7y ago
  “The same category of things” still doesn’t make it relevant. It’s obviously not illegal in the US to drive a taxi cab and cab drivers do not make any more money than Uber drivers. The issue is that if someone wants to earn part time income, Uber provides a great option. And these rules would destroy that option. I really don’t know why people cannot be left to make this decision for themselves.
- wozniacki 7y ago
  From looking at the condition of the drivers and the cabs they maintained before the arrival of Uber & Lyft, I don't think NYC's medallion system (or its equivalent in other cities) were following any modest safety requirements that were in place back then. People loved these ride-hailing apps because of how lousy the typical taxi cab experience was for most people. ~ Most of the drivers were not native English speakers and would not put any effort into conducting their business genially. ~ They would refuse to take credit cards despite having card readers or would disable them to take cash. ~ At late hours you were at the mercy of the dispatcher (from the central office) if they would send a taxi at all or if the driver would take your business instead of ditching you to pickup passengers for longer (and more profitable) trips. ~ There was zero accountability in a whole host of areas like that.
  - bt848 7y ago
    There were always computer-dispatched car services in New York, decades before Uber. The reason people prefer Uber is because Computer Car costs $60 to go to the airport and Uber, by contracting with desperate amateurs and their unmaintained jalopies, undercuts their price.
    - aeorgnoieang 7y ago
      Those services were, and still are, much worse than Uber and the like. They're not bad in any absolute sense; just relatively bad. I'm pretty sure they weren't and aren't "computer-dispatched" in the same way Uber and the like are either. For one, you almost always had and have to speak to a person by phone, and often more than once, e.g. to receive updates about when a driver could be expected to arrive.

applecakes24 7y ago

Some of the people on this website are insanely cloistered lol holy cow. Those dang desperate (read: poor) people ruin everything!

repolfx 7y ago

You don't actually need a minimum wage, as it's a very recent invention. Things worked fine before that was introduced. And do you really have to assume employers always "exploit" employees? That's the basic idea of communism and it's always a disaster. Employers don't exploit labour. It's a trade that leaves both sides better off.

zxcvbn4038 7y ago
Yes, was a problem long before Marx came around. Since recorded history and probably even earlier then that. That’s just human history, I’m pretty sure there are types of both ants and bees that enslave other insects and make them maintain their colonies.
maxehmookau 7y ago
> Employers don't exploit labour. lol