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There's no real evidence that's true. There are lots of countries where minimum wage policies are providing (or exceeding) a living wage for their employees[0].

There's no real evidence that's true. There are lots of countries where minimum wage policies are providing (or exceeding) a living wage for their employees[0]. At least enough for their employees to feed themselves without government assistance. None of these countries have a demonstrable lack of employment growth[0] at the low end, and in macro and micro economic terms have comparable growth with the US. [0]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/DDN-20190131-2 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/D... [1]: https://data.oecd.org/emp/employment-rate.htm https://data.oecd.org/emp/employment-rate.htm

donatj 7y ago
The European economy is different in many ways, closer to home we’ve seen slashed hours [0] resulting in workers getting less overall take home pay, as well as increased prices. Not only did it result in the poor making less but the cost of living went up. [0]: https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/7/13/20690266/seattle-minimum-wage-15-dollars https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/7/13/20690266/seattle...
- markmark 7y ago
  That article doesn't seem to say what you claim it says?
  - donatj 7y ago
    > They found that the policy “reduced hours worked in low-wage jobs by 6-7 percent, while hourly wages in such jobs increased by 3 percent ... consequently, total payroll for such jobs decreased.” That means the total amount that employers paid to workers was less with the new minimum wage in place than projected payroll if the policy hadn’t gone into effect. Also > Surveying employers, Romich and other researchers found the most common response to the wage increase was to raise prices
- Joe8Bit 7y ago
  To wave a hand and dismiss the entirety of Europe's wage policy as 'different in many ways' is disingenuous. What Europe represents is a systemic approach to wage inflation at the low end; but this is also true for other countries with strong minimum wage guarantees (like Japan). Every-time they've been put in place in this systematic way it's led to greater economic mobility, greater employment rates and a lowering of the burden on social welfare systems; whilst having little demonstrable impact on long-term economic growth, and in fact, there's recent evidence to suggest they have net positive impacts on growth[0][1][2][3] What Seattle represents is a small isolated experiment within larger state, regional and federal contexts that effected its outcome. That's not to dismiss it's value, far from it, but to take as it some kind of definitive evidence is to weigh a grain of sand against a beach of contradictory evidence. [0]: https://equitablegrowth.org/working-papers/distributional-minimum-wage/ https://equitablegrowth.org/working-papers/distributional-mi... [1]: http://www.lse.ac.uk/business-and-consultancy/consulting/assets/documents/Low-Pay-and-In-Work-Poverty.pdf http://www.lse.ac.uk/business-and-consultancy/consulting/ass... [2]: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/601139/The_impact_of_the_NMW_on_employment_-_a_meta-analysis.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... [3]: https://www.nber.org/papers/w25434 https://www.nber.org/papers/w25434
rayiner 7y ago
Minimum wages in most European countries are quite low. In France, minimum wage is about $11/hour. That’s the same as Wal-Mart.
- Joe8Bit 7y ago
  It's actually $15.98. French minimum wage of 1,521.22 Euro PCM (divided by France's 35 hour week * 4) = 14.48 Euro per hour / $15.98 This also doesn't take into account things like top-up tax credits for low earners, access to social housing, free childcare and a zero up-front cost on healthcare. So take home wage is substantially higher than the hourly rate would indicate.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - rayiner 7y ago
    This article says 10 euro: https://www.expatica.com/fr/employment/employment-law/french-minimum-wage-and-average-salary-in-france-982310 https://www.expatica.com/fr/employment/employment-law/french.... There are actually 4.43 weeks in a month. The shorter French work week also hurts here. Over a third of minimum wage workers in the US work full time, which makes their monthly salary about $1,950 per month, or 1,765 Euro per month. (15% higher than French minimum wage.) There is serious debate in France about getting rid of the 35 hour work week: https://www.france24.com/en/20170413-french-presidential-candidates-divided-35-hour-week-economy-employment https://www.france24.com/en/20170413-french-presidential-can.... Also, the US has a substantial tax credit for low earners (EITC). But that’s a bit far afield from the point OP was making, which is that working people shouldn’t have to draw on public welfare benefits. European minimum wages are low enough where companies are still “subsidized” by benefits paid to low income workers.
- mschuster91 7y ago
  > Minimum wages in most European countries are quite low. In France, minimum wage is about $11/hour. That’s the same as Wal-Mart. While Americans have to pay for their healthcare and other social safety nets from that 11$/h, Europeans get their benefits on top.

donatj 7y ago

The European economy is different in many ways, closer to home we’ve seen slashed hours [0] resulting in workers getting less overall take home pay, as well as increased prices. Not only did it result in the poor making less but the cost of living went up. [0]: https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/7/13/20690266/seattle-minimum-wage-15-dollars https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/2019/7/13/20690266/seattle...

markmark 7y ago
That article doesn't seem to say what you claim it says?
- donatj 7y ago
  > They found that the policy “reduced hours worked in low-wage jobs by 6-7 percent, while hourly wages in such jobs increased by 3 percent ... consequently, total payroll for such jobs decreased.” That means the total amount that employers paid to workers was less with the new minimum wage in place than projected payroll if the policy hadn’t gone into effect. Also > Surveying employers, Romich and other researchers found the most common response to the wage increase was to raise prices
Joe8Bit 7y ago
To wave a hand and dismiss the entirety of Europe's wage policy as 'different in many ways' is disingenuous. What Europe represents is a systemic approach to wage inflation at the low end; but this is also true for other countries with strong minimum wage guarantees (like Japan). Every-time they've been put in place in this systematic way it's led to greater economic mobility, greater employment rates and a lowering of the burden on social welfare systems; whilst having little demonstrable impact on long-term economic growth, and in fact, there's recent evidence to suggest they have net positive impacts on growth[0][1][2][3] What Seattle represents is a small isolated experiment within larger state, regional and federal contexts that effected its outcome. That's not to dismiss it's value, far from it, but to take as it some kind of definitive evidence is to weigh a grain of sand against a beach of contradictory evidence. [0]: https://equitablegrowth.org/working-papers/distributional-minimum-wage/ https://equitablegrowth.org/working-papers/distributional-mi... [1]: http://www.lse.ac.uk/business-and-consultancy/consulting/assets/documents/Low-Pay-and-In-Work-Poverty.pdf http://www.lse.ac.uk/business-and-consultancy/consulting/ass... [2]: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/601139/The_impact_of_the_NMW_on_employment_-_a_meta-analysis.pdf https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/... [3]: https://www.nber.org/papers/w25434 https://www.nber.org/papers/w25434

rayiner 7y ago

Minimum wages in most European countries are quite low. In France, minimum wage is about $11/hour. That’s the same as Wal-Mart.

Joe8Bit 7y ago
It's actually $15.98. French minimum wage of 1,521.22 Euro PCM (divided by France's 35 hour week * 4) = 14.48 Euro per hour / $15.98 This also doesn't take into account things like top-up tax credits for low earners, access to social housing, free childcare and a zero up-front cost on healthcare. So take home wage is substantially higher than the hourly rate would indicate.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- rayiner 7y ago
  This article says 10 euro: https://www.expatica.com/fr/employment/employment-law/french-minimum-wage-and-average-salary-in-france-982310 https://www.expatica.com/fr/employment/employment-law/french.... There are actually 4.43 weeks in a month. The shorter French work week also hurts here. Over a third of minimum wage workers in the US work full time, which makes their monthly salary about $1,950 per month, or 1,765 Euro per month. (15% higher than French minimum wage.) There is serious debate in France about getting rid of the 35 hour work week: https://www.france24.com/en/20170413-french-presidential-candidates-divided-35-hour-week-economy-employment https://www.france24.com/en/20170413-french-presidential-can.... Also, the US has a substantial tax credit for low earners (EITC). But that’s a bit far afield from the point OP was making, which is that working people shouldn’t have to draw on public welfare benefits. European minimum wages are low enough where companies are still “subsidized” by benefits paid to low income workers.
mschuster91 7y ago
> Minimum wages in most European countries are quite low. In France, minimum wage is about $11/hour. That’s the same as Wal-Mart. While Americans have to pay for their healthcare and other social safety nets from that 11$/h, Europeans get their benefits on top.