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11,000 feet ~= 3350 meters Also, did we need more evidence that climate change is real? The article has a paragraph about deniers ("people […] cynical about th

11,000 feet ~= 3350 meters Also, did we need more evidence that climate change is real? The article has a paragraph about deniers ("people […] cynical about the impact of climate change") but somehow I don't think they will change their mind because there is a now a lake where there shouldn't be in the Alps.

bsaul 7y ago
plus from what i’ve read so far, climate change « deniers » think humans have very little to do with climate and that recent warming is a natural phenomenon that started 14k years ago. Not that it doesn’t exists.
- adrianN 7y ago
  There are several types of deniers. Some actually don't believe the raw data about temperature change, some don't believe humans are responsible.
  - rusticpenn 7y ago
    And some believe that they will be dead by the time it becomes a problem.
    - p98yuhp 7y ago
      And some believe that they will change everything by calling others as deniers/believers/progressives/Nazis/Whatever
  - jfnixon 7y ago
    I don’t think you actually mean “raw data about temperature change” because most of the warming is only seen in the processed readings, not the raw data. Consider the USCRN raw temperature dsta, which comes from the gold standard observation network, with carefully sited locations and the best instruments. It was designed from the start to have reliable observational data needing few, if any, corrections. It has seen very little warming since it went live about 15 years ago. True, it only covers the US, and 15 years isn’t yet long enough to have enough statistical significance for a confident claim of little to no warming, but it is getting close. One can’t simply ignore the data, though. It will soon require an explanation.
- phs318u 7y ago
  Sadly many who deny climate change use “shapeshifter” arguments (it doesn’t exist; it exists but it wasn’t us; it exists and it’s good for us; it exists and it’s bad for us but we’ll adapt) to support their case. As a climate scientist once complained, “they get to pick from an assortment of contradictory arguments and will shift from one to the other; we can only resort to one argument - the truth” (quote may be wrong, sorry, I can’t find the original reference nor remember who said it).
  - ansible 7y ago
    > Sadly many who deny climate change use “shapeshifter” arguments (it doesn’t exist; it exists but it wasn’t us; it exists and it’s good for us; it exists and it’s bad for us but we’ll adapt) to support their case. It is amusing / sad how closely that follows the Narcissist's Prayer: https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/4nymz1/a_narcissists_prayer/ https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/4nymz1... A Narcissist's Prayer That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did... You deserved it.
    - flukus 7y ago
      Repeat Chorus. I've heard it called the ladder of denialism, but it's more of a mouse wheel, they end up back at the first step sooner or later.
Freak_NL 7y ago
Thanks. Measuring mountains in the Alps in feet makes no sense at all.
Pimpus 7y ago
Well, what does this "prove"? That the climate isn't 100% static? That snow melts? You can cherry pick data to support whatever conclusion you want. Clickbait.
- Pimpus 7y ago
  Of course I get downvoted for discrediting fake news pushing an agenda. Ridiculous.
jsingleton 7y ago
You're right. We don't need more evidence, we need more action. Get involved with the strikes on the 20th. You can even put your website on strike https://digital.globalclimatestrike.net/ https://digital.globalclimatestrike.net/ (got some big names signed up already). Here are some good resources to combat science deniers but it's probably better to focus on people in the middle who know it's happening but have yet to take action. https://skepticalscience.com/ https://skepticalscience.com/ https://xkcd.com/1732/ https://xkcd.com/1732/

bsaul 7y ago

plus from what i’ve read so far, climate change « deniers » think humans have very little to do with climate and that recent warming is a natural phenomenon that started 14k years ago. Not that it doesn’t exists.

adrianN 7y ago
There are several types of deniers. Some actually don't believe the raw data about temperature change, some don't believe humans are responsible.
- rusticpenn 7y ago
  And some believe that they will be dead by the time it becomes a problem.
  - p98yuhp 7y ago
    And some believe that they will change everything by calling others as deniers/believers/progressives/Nazis/Whatever
- jfnixon 7y ago
  I don’t think you actually mean “raw data about temperature change” because most of the warming is only seen in the processed readings, not the raw data. Consider the USCRN raw temperature dsta, which comes from the gold standard observation network, with carefully sited locations and the best instruments. It was designed from the start to have reliable observational data needing few, if any, corrections. It has seen very little warming since it went live about 15 years ago. True, it only covers the US, and 15 years isn’t yet long enough to have enough statistical significance for a confident claim of little to no warming, but it is getting close. One can’t simply ignore the data, though. It will soon require an explanation.
phs318u 7y ago
Sadly many who deny climate change use “shapeshifter” arguments (it doesn’t exist; it exists but it wasn’t us; it exists and it’s good for us; it exists and it’s bad for us but we’ll adapt) to support their case. As a climate scientist once complained, “they get to pick from an assortment of contradictory arguments and will shift from one to the other; we can only resort to one argument - the truth” (quote may be wrong, sorry, I can’t find the original reference nor remember who said it).
- ansible 7y ago
  > Sadly many who deny climate change use “shapeshifter” arguments (it doesn’t exist; it exists but it wasn’t us; it exists and it’s good for us; it exists and it’s bad for us but we’ll adapt) to support their case. It is amusing / sad how closely that follows the Narcissist's Prayer: https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/4nymz1/a_narcissists_prayer/ https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/4nymz1... A Narcissist's Prayer That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did... You deserved it.
  - flukus 7y ago
    Repeat Chorus. I've heard it called the ladder of denialism, but it's more of a mouse wheel, they end up back at the first step sooner or later.

Freak_NL 7y ago

Thanks. Measuring mountains in the Alps in feet makes no sense at all.

Pimpus 7y ago

Well, what does this "prove"? That the climate isn't 100% static? That snow melts? You can cherry pick data to support whatever conclusion you want. Clickbait.

Pimpus 7y ago
Of course I get downvoted for discrediting fake news pushing an agenda. Ridiculous.

jsingleton 7y ago

You're right. We don't need more evidence, we need more action. Get involved with the strikes on the 20th. You can even put your website on strike https://digital.globalclimatestrike.net/ https://digital.globalclimatestrike.net/ (got some big names signed up already). Here are some good resources to combat science deniers but it's probably better to focus on people in the middle who know it's happening but have yet to take action. https://skepticalscience.com/ https://skepticalscience.com/ https://xkcd.com/1732/ https://xkcd.com/1732/