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Is Verizon's CDMA network technically compatible with anywhere else in the world? (e.g. so that you can us the same phone in U.S and elsewhere, provided it is n

by listic 16y ago

Is Verizon's CDMA network technically compatible with anywhere else in the world? (e.g. so that you can us the same phone in U.S and elsewhere, provided it is not locked) Specifically, which frequency band does U.S. CDMA use?

rmc 16y ago
No I don't think so. Everwhere else on the world is GSM. That confused me when I first read about USA mobile phones, I wondered what this CDMA thing was.
- dboyd 16y ago
  Worldwide CDMA coverage: http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/ http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/
  - cstross 16y ago
    Looking at their map, it's highly misleading, implying there's CDMA 3G coverage in a bunch of places where there is no, or minimal coverage. (They're a trade body promoting CDMA -- what would you do in their shoes?) CDMA2000 aka EV-DO isn't compatible with W-CDMA, aka UMTS -- the 3G standard used just about everywhere -- and has about 10% of the market worldwide: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Comparison_of_mobile_phone_standards https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Comparison_of... Here's a list of CDMA2000 operators. You'll notice a lot in the Americas, especially the USA, plus others scattered elsewhere: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_CDMA2000_networks https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_CDMA2... And here's the giant table of UMTS (aka W-CDMA) operators worldwide: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_UMTS_networks https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_UMTS_... If you're American and don't have a passport, then by all means get a Verizon iPhone 4. But if you expect to travel widely it'd be much more sensible to get a GSM/UMTS iPhone 4, even if it means putting up with AT&T at home. (More sensibly, buy an unlocked one from Apple on a trip to, say, the UK or Ireland: claim back the VAT and buy a micro-SIM on the network of your choice and you're golden.)
    - rbanffy 16y ago
      > They're a trade body promoting CDMA -- what would you do in their shoes? I would either tell the truth or quit the job. I take my professional code very seriously.
  - rmc 16y ago
    Very misleading. It highlights Ireland as a CDMA country (there's a trial apparently) However if you had a CDMA mobile phone, it won't work in Ireland.
- retroafroman 16y ago
  There are GSM networks in the rest of the world yes, but that is not the only technology outside the US. There are CDMA networks in other countries as well. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_frequencies#Other_Regions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_frequencies#Other_Regi...
- listic 16y ago
  While it seems not technically right, e.g. CDMA seems to be used here and there around the world, I am reassured in my opinion that if you intend to use your cell phone/modem not exclusively on your home operator's network, you'd better stick to GSM. Thanks for your links, retroafroman and dboyd! That's exactly what I needed.
- barredo 16y ago
  No. CDMA is used also outside the US. * KDDI, Japan's #2 carrier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDDI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDDI (20-21M users) * China Telecom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Telecom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Telecom (216M users) Also others in India too. For instance.
  - irons 16y ago
    Also, Iraq. Thanks, Darrell Issa!
- bane 16y ago
  It's on a different frequency and uses a different communication protocol. There are a few Verizon phones that are "world phones" meaning they can operate on CDMA and GSM, so you can take them out of the country with you. I've brought my CDMA phone with me a few times and more or less got by on wifi for data needs (I wasn't going to pay the ridiculous international call fees anyway, last time I did that with my iPhone a 20 minutes of calltime and a few emails cost me over $150!)
kyleslattery 16y ago
There are large CDMA networks in China, not sure whether or not they're compatible with Verizon's (though I would guess they are).
stevenbedrick 16y ago
I'm not sure exactly how it works, but Verizon does offer international roaming in a few places (Mexico, etc.). It's nowhere near as good as AT&T's international roaming, but, as other commenters have posted, GSM is far more prevalent outside the US than CDMA.
shennyg 16y ago
US based sprint uses CDMA.
ugh 16y ago
And how does that work with the switch to LTE? It seems that AT&T eventually wants to invest in LTE infrastructure, too (but HSDPA can offer at least nearly the speed Verizon’s LTE has to offer at the moment so I don’t think they need to hurry). Will the US converge on one standard? (At least in the sense that building a phone that works both with AT&T and Verizon gets easier?) It also seems like Verizon really needs to hurry up with LTE (I don’t even know whether you should call it 4G if HSDPA can be nearly as fast) because CDMA doesn’t go very fast. AT&T doesn’t have that same speed gap because they are using UTMS which can go much faster. (The current iPhone is limited to 7.2 Mbps, though.)
metamatt 16y ago
"Locking" doesn't mean the same thing it does for GSM phones; CDMA phones have a builtin ID which is registered with the network, and there's no SIM card or equivalent to swap out to change that ID. Sprint and Verizon both use the same CDMA frequencies in the US, and Sprint and Verizon phones roam on each other's networks. But there's no button on your Sprint phone to push to make it a Verizon phone, or vice versa. Sometimes you can get the carrier to do it for you -- the new carrier can choose to activate your existing phone on their network. At least I remember stories of people doing that; I never tried it so can't speak from personal experience.
- Yopie 16y ago
  There is SIM Card equivalent for CDMA technology called R-UIM (Removable User Identity Module). It's commonly used by any CDMA phone outside the US. I wonder if this CDMA iPhone come with R-UIM card or it have build in ID which register with the network?
pmjordan 16y ago
Independently of the inability to roam in GSM 2G, you may still be able to roam on foreign 3G networks. For 3G, CDMA seems to be ubiquitous, it's mainly a question of at least one of the frequency bands supported by the phone being used in the destination country.

by listic 16y ago

rmc 16y ago

No I don't think so. Everwhere else on the world is GSM. That confused me when I first read about USA mobile phones, I wondered what this CDMA thing was.

dboyd 16y ago
Worldwide CDMA coverage: http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/ http://www.cdg.org/worldwide/
- cstross 16y ago
  Looking at their map, it's highly misleading, implying there's CDMA 3G coverage in a bunch of places where there is no, or minimal coverage. (They're a trade body promoting CDMA -- what would you do in their shoes?) CDMA2000 aka EV-DO isn't compatible with W-CDMA, aka UMTS -- the 3G standard used just about everywhere -- and has about 10% of the market worldwide: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Comparison_of_mobile_phone_standards https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Comparison_of... Here's a list of CDMA2000 operators. You'll notice a lot in the Americas, especially the USA, plus others scattered elsewhere: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_CDMA2000_networks https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_CDMA2... And here's the giant table of UMTS (aka W-CDMA) operators worldwide: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_UMTS_networks https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/List_of_UMTS_... If you're American and don't have a passport, then by all means get a Verizon iPhone 4. But if you expect to travel widely it'd be much more sensible to get a GSM/UMTS iPhone 4, even if it means putting up with AT&T at home. (More sensibly, buy an unlocked one from Apple on a trip to, say, the UK or Ireland: claim back the VAT and buy a micro-SIM on the network of your choice and you're golden.)
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    > They're a trade body promoting CDMA -- what would you do in their shoes? I would either tell the truth or quit the job. I take my professional code very seriously.
- rmc 16y ago
  Very misleading. It highlights Ireland as a CDMA country (there's a trial apparently) However if you had a CDMA mobile phone, it won't work in Ireland.
retroafroman 16y ago
There are GSM networks in the rest of the world yes, but that is not the only technology outside the US. There are CDMA networks in other countries as well. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_frequencies#Other_Regions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellular_frequencies#Other_Regi...
listic 16y ago
While it seems not technically right, e.g. CDMA seems to be used here and there around the world, I am reassured in my opinion that if you intend to use your cell phone/modem not exclusively on your home operator's network, you'd better stick to GSM. Thanks for your links, retroafroman and dboyd! That's exactly what I needed.
barredo 16y ago
No. CDMA is used also outside the US. * KDDI, Japan's #2 carrier: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDDI http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KDDI (20-21M users) * China Telecom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Telecom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Telecom (216M users) Also others in India too. For instance.
- irons 16y ago
  Also, Iraq. Thanks, Darrell Issa!
bane 16y ago
It's on a different frequency and uses a different communication protocol. There are a few Verizon phones that are "world phones" meaning they can operate on CDMA and GSM, so you can take them out of the country with you. I've brought my CDMA phone with me a few times and more or less got by on wifi for data needs (I wasn't going to pay the ridiculous international call fees anyway, last time I did that with my iPhone a 20 minutes of calltime and a few emails cost me over $150!)

kyleslattery 16y ago

There are large CDMA networks in China, not sure whether or not they're compatible with Verizon's (though I would guess they are).

stevenbedrick 16y ago

I'm not sure exactly how it works, but Verizon does offer international roaming in a few places (Mexico, etc.). It's nowhere near as good as AT&T's international roaming, but, as other commenters have posted, GSM is far more prevalent outside the US than CDMA.

shennyg 16y ago

US based sprint uses CDMA.

ugh 16y ago

And how does that work with the switch to LTE? It seems that AT&T eventually wants to invest in LTE infrastructure, too (but HSDPA can offer at least nearly the speed Verizon’s LTE has to offer at the moment so I don’t think they need to hurry). Will the US converge on one standard? (At least in the sense that building a phone that works both with AT&T and Verizon gets easier?) It also seems like Verizon really needs to hurry up with LTE (I don’t even know whether you should call it 4G if HSDPA can be nearly as fast) because CDMA doesn’t go very fast. AT&T doesn’t have that same speed gap because they are using UTMS which can go much faster. (The current iPhone is limited to 7.2 Mbps, though.)

metamatt 16y ago

"Locking" doesn't mean the same thing it does for GSM phones; CDMA phones have a builtin ID which is registered with the network, and there's no SIM card or equivalent to swap out to change that ID. Sprint and Verizon both use the same CDMA frequencies in the US, and Sprint and Verizon phones roam on each other's networks. But there's no button on your Sprint phone to push to make it a Verizon phone, or vice versa. Sometimes you can get the carrier to do it for you -- the new carrier can choose to activate your existing phone on their network. At least I remember stories of people doing that; I never tried it so can't speak from personal experience.

Yopie 16y ago
There is SIM Card equivalent for CDMA technology called R-UIM (Removable User Identity Module). It's commonly used by any CDMA phone outside the US. I wonder if this CDMA iPhone come with R-UIM card or it have build in ID which register with the network?

pmjordan 16y ago

Independently of the inability to roam in GSM 2G, you may still be able to roam on foreign 3G networks. For 3G, CDMA seems to be ubiquitous, it's mainly a question of at least one of the frequency bands supported by the phone being used in the destination country.