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Very recently there was a flurry of articles about Apple copying popular apps, among them woman health apps [1]. Although they were not wrong to voice their con

Very recently there was a flurry of articles about Apple copying popular apps, among them woman health apps [1]. Although they were not wrong to voice their concerns about Apple, it's hard to cheer for the app makers when you later find out they don't exactly value your privacy and are not upfront with you, as a user, about that. [1] washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/09/05/how-apple-uses-its-app-store-copy-best-ideas EDIT: language

m463 7y ago
A more straightforward way of doing this is not to copy the app and make it more private... It would be to allow you to see what the apps are doing, and prevent them from doing what you don't approve of. Including apple apps. It could be as simple as: prevent this app from using the network.
- camhenlin 7y ago
  The problem I see with that is that many (most?) users are not going to go deny network access to each app. Furthermore, what if the app tells me that it needs network access to get calendar info or something along those lines - and then actually uses the network for that -, then subsequently uses the network access to siphon off my personal info? Certainly if you had the ability to "see" what an app is doing, you might be able to catch that, but that's well beyond the grasp of most users. Better to be able to inherently trust the app because it was built by a trusted 3rd party. Certainly I agree that it would be nice to be able to disable network access to any app I felt like though.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Only for 3rd party keyboards, network access is denied by default. First you have to go through settings to enable them instead of a simple dialog box (which I agree with) and then you have to go back in settings to give the keyboard network access and you get a very clear warning. But, most people on HN don’t seem to understand Apple’s priorities. This is how it should be. 1. Apple 2. Users . . . . 3. Developers.
    - toper-centage 7y ago
      This is something super important that is missing in android and no one ever mentions. Keyboard apps are all phone home everything we type. Fortunately my phone let's me block individual app access to the network, but as far as I know you can't do that in android.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        Also, even when you give the keyboard network access, when you enter a password, iOS switches to the native keyboard. Apps can also force iOS to only use the native keyboard. iOS really doesn’t trust third party keyboards.
    - LeoNatan25 7y ago
      This sounds like a good strategy for me as first and foremost a user.
- scarface74 7y ago
  A more straightforward way of doing this is not to copy the app and make it more private... How do you deny an app network access and allow it to share your data across your own devices? With your partner? Would you also like to give third party apps access to your biometric data? Your password storage?
  - sigstoat 7y ago
    > How do you deny an app network access and allow it to share your data across your own devices? With your partner? commenting only the technical aspect, without suggesting anything is or is not a good idea, apple's operating systems could offer a service whereby apps could hand over data to the OS which it would save to icloud on their behalf, and hand back to only that app or other instances of it (as determined by the user). that, plus normal networking denied to the app would do the job nicely.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      That’s actually not a bad idea....
    - layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
      Good news: this already exists since iOS 5: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/nsubiquitouskeyvaluestore https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/nsubiqu...
chooseaname 7y ago
Rumor has it Apple is actually adding Menstruation tracking to their Health app soon.
- wilg 7y ago
  It is not a rumor: https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/06/06/hands-on-with-cycle-apples-new-menstrual-cycle-tracker-in-ios-13-and-watchos-6 https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/06/06/hands-on-with-cyc...
- WA 7y ago
  It’s in iOS 13 and you can already use it with the beta. You can enter data about your menstrual cycle and it shows a fertile window. What’s interesting here is: I don’t know much about HIPAA, but I know a bit about the increasing regulation of health apps in the EU. The law is a bit muddy. But you could argue that apps, which gather health data and apply some kind of algorithm to it that helps you understand your body in a better way, fall under the coming Medical Device Regulation. This law will be effective in May 2020.
  - chooseaname 7y ago
    > The law is a bit muddy. But you could argue that apps, which gather health data and apply some kind of algorithm to it that helps you understand your body in a better way, fall under the coming Medical Device Regulation. I would certainly hope they do fall under that regulation. Otherwise, I can certainly see a few developers manipulating their algorithms for health apps in a way to change people's behaviors in order to reinforce some belief the app developer may have.
    - big_chungus 7y ago
      > Otherwise, I can certainly see a few developers manipulating their algorithms for health apps in a way to change people's behaviors in order to reinforce some belief the app developer may have. Could you clarify here? It sounds like there's a sub-text, but I apparently lack the context to "get it".
leppr 7y ago
Amazing that the monopoly taking a 30% cut doesn't feel like it has to resort to selling user data. I wonder if app makers on a free and transparent platform would act more ethically?
- stochastic_monk 7y ago
  You mean turn down free money be being less evil? Somehow I don't expect this to be the case.
  - 52-6F-62 7y ago
    Reminds me of the old "if I wasn't taxed then I could give to charity!"
- notduncansmith 7y ago
  Well, Google’s Play Store is closer to free and transparent than the App Store but doesn’t seem to encourage any more ethical behavior.

m463 7y ago

A more straightforward way of doing this is not to copy the app and make it more private... It would be to allow you to see what the apps are doing, and prevent them from doing what you don't approve of. Including apple apps. It could be as simple as: prevent this app from using the network.

camhenlin 7y ago
The problem I see with that is that many (most?) users are not going to go deny network access to each app. Furthermore, what if the app tells me that it needs network access to get calendar info or something along those lines - and then actually uses the network for that -, then subsequently uses the network access to siphon off my personal info? Certainly if you had the ability to "see" what an app is doing, you might be able to catch that, but that's well beyond the grasp of most users. Better to be able to inherently trust the app because it was built by a trusted 3rd party. Certainly I agree that it would be nice to be able to disable network access to any app I felt like though.
- scarface74 7y ago
  Only for 3rd party keyboards, network access is denied by default. First you have to go through settings to enable them instead of a simple dialog box (which I agree with) and then you have to go back in settings to give the keyboard network access and you get a very clear warning. But, most people on HN don’t seem to understand Apple’s priorities. This is how it should be. 1. Apple 2. Users . . . . 3. Developers.
  - toper-centage 7y ago
    This is something super important that is missing in android and no one ever mentions. Keyboard apps are all phone home everything we type. Fortunately my phone let's me block individual app access to the network, but as far as I know you can't do that in android.
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Also, even when you give the keyboard network access, when you enter a password, iOS switches to the native keyboard. Apps can also force iOS to only use the native keyboard. iOS really doesn’t trust third party keyboards.
  - LeoNatan25 7y ago
    This sounds like a good strategy for me as first and foremost a user.
scarface74 7y ago
A more straightforward way of doing this is not to copy the app and make it more private... How do you deny an app network access and allow it to share your data across your own devices? With your partner? Would you also like to give third party apps access to your biometric data? Your password storage?
- sigstoat 7y ago
  > How do you deny an app network access and allow it to share your data across your own devices? With your partner? commenting only the technical aspect, without suggesting anything is or is not a good idea, apple's operating systems could offer a service whereby apps could hand over data to the OS which it would save to icloud on their behalf, and hand back to only that app or other instances of it (as determined by the user). that, plus normal networking denied to the app would do the job nicely.
  - scarface74 7y ago
    That’s actually not a bad idea....
  - layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
    Good news: this already exists since iOS 5: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/nsubiquitouskeyvaluestore https://developer.apple.com/documentation/foundation/nsubiqu...

chooseaname 7y ago

Rumor has it Apple is actually adding Menstruation tracking to their Health app soon.

wilg 7y ago
It is not a rumor: https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/06/06/hands-on-with-cycle-apples-new-menstrual-cycle-tracker-in-ios-13-and-watchos-6 https://appleinsider.com/articles/19/06/06/hands-on-with-cyc...
WA 7y ago
It’s in iOS 13 and you can already use it with the beta. You can enter data about your menstrual cycle and it shows a fertile window. What’s interesting here is: I don’t know much about HIPAA, but I know a bit about the increasing regulation of health apps in the EU. The law is a bit muddy. But you could argue that apps, which gather health data and apply some kind of algorithm to it that helps you understand your body in a better way, fall under the coming Medical Device Regulation. This law will be effective in May 2020.
- chooseaname 7y ago
  > The law is a bit muddy. But you could argue that apps, which gather health data and apply some kind of algorithm to it that helps you understand your body in a better way, fall under the coming Medical Device Regulation. I would certainly hope they do fall under that regulation. Otherwise, I can certainly see a few developers manipulating their algorithms for health apps in a way to change people's behaviors in order to reinforce some belief the app developer may have.
  - big_chungus 7y ago
    > Otherwise, I can certainly see a few developers manipulating their algorithms for health apps in a way to change people's behaviors in order to reinforce some belief the app developer may have. Could you clarify here? It sounds like there's a sub-text, but I apparently lack the context to "get it".

leppr 7y ago

Amazing that the monopoly taking a 30% cut doesn't feel like it has to resort to selling user data. I wonder if app makers on a free and transparent platform would act more ethically?

stochastic_monk 7y ago
You mean turn down free money be being less evil? Somehow I don't expect this to be the case.
- 52-6F-62 7y ago
  Reminds me of the old "if I wasn't taxed then I could give to charity!"
notduncansmith 7y ago
Well, Google’s Play Store is closer to free and transparent than the App Store but doesn’t seem to encourage any more ethical behavior.