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Odds are someone / some people will create some kind of simpler solution with an easy default setup within the next ~5 years. Maybe as a wrapper over Kubernetes

Odds are someone / some people will create some kind of simpler solution with an easy default setup within the next ~5 years. Maybe as a wrapper over Kubernetes, or maybe as something new and interoperable with it. Maybe it'll involve a bunch of "serverless" buzzwords or some newly invented buzzwords. That's how things usually go historically. A lot of value can still be extracted if you're careful to ignore the cult-y bits. Containers, serverless/FaaS, and Kubernetes can be pretty great if you're the plane pilot dropping the cargo on the island rather than the cult living on it, and future stuff will probably be even better.

wayoutthere 7y ago
Oh they have and are; but what is the business case open source such a wrapper? Wouldn’t you just host it on your own hardware and basically be another Heroku? This kind of software is complex enough it would take corporate backing (either an industry group or VC backing) so it’s probably not getting built unless there’s a business case. Even Google only released K8s because they thought it would push people towards GCP — which it didn’t because it was too easy for AWS to implement a similar service using Google’s open source tech. The open source freemium model for infrastructure tech is pretty much dead as a result of this kind of activity.
- meowface 7y ago
  The wrapper can still be something self-hosted. There will always be SaaS/PaaS/IaaS abstractions out there for just about everything; even MySQL. The idea would be for someone to be able to very easily self-host something that's as simple to use and configure and interface with as AWS EKS or Google GKE. I have no idea what business case there'd be to open source it. Maybe some open source devs with former experience at a big company will create one just for fun after they leave the company? Who knows. It'll probably happen eventually, by someone, either way.
  - wayoutthere 7y ago
    Would you do your day job “just for fun” after you just quit? The reality is that most of this technology — especially around infrastructure — has become so complex at scale that the tech strategy and the business strategy are the same thing. So infrastructure software has to match your business architecture which is largely dictated to a technology org. Which is why “tech ops” these days is largely just “ops” — the technological complexity is a reaction to increased business sophistication, not the other way around.
    - meowface 7y ago
      Me? No. But some people seem to like to do that. And some people do seem to be genuinely very passionate about infrastructure and such. Kubernetes can be applied to a lot of different business and technological architectures, I think, and a simpler alternative could be similarly general.
- bdcravens 7y ago
  > it was too easy for AWS to implement a similar service using Google’s open source tech AWS had the most K8S deployments even before they released EKS, according to the CNCF: https://www.cncf.io/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/cncf_survey_graphics-09.jpg https://www.cncf.io/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/cncf_survey_g...
atq2119 7y ago
Or perhaps somebody will evolve Kubernetes itself into becoming simpler? I know that's a pipe dream, but really, why does it have to be? What would have to happen for people to actually work on making existing things simpler and better factored rather than reinventing the wheel? My personal theory is that it's largely because that kind of work simply isn't being valued highly enough. Reinventing the wheel is a much lower friction path to take and has a higher chance of being rewarded highly. It shouldn't be like that, though.
- mst 7y ago
  I think k3s is sort of trying to do that?
  - StavrosK 7y ago
    Have you tried it? Is it any good? I've been looking for a simpler Kubernetes, although I don't know how much simpler it can be in practice and still do the same things.
    - cbluth 7y ago
      I've tried k3s, and while I was impressed, it leaves out several important features. RKE is a great alternative, and kubespray is quite stable well.
- gerbilly 7y ago
  How about Hashicorp nomad? (https://www.nomadproject.io/ https://www.nomadproject.io/)
- pvorb 7y ago
  The problem with making things simpler is compatibility. If you make something simpler, but don't stay compatible, it might be better to just find a new name for your simple version.
- jldugger 7y ago
  Do we even need k8s for a personal blog? What problem does it solve for someone coming from docker or a VM? k8s is a building block one can use to provide a simpler service, and if you want to convince anyone it needs a refactoring, maybe provide some specifics?
reilly3000 7y ago
That would be knative.
nisa 7y ago
> Odds are someone / some people will create some kind of simpler solution with an easy default setup within the next ~5 years. I know it's not the same but Docker Swarm is pretty great if you just want to deploy some container images on a single host or a cluster - this guide covers setup + traefik + swarmpit ui https://dockerswarm.rocks https://dockerswarm.rocks

wayoutthere 7y ago

Oh they have and are; but what is the business case open source such a wrapper? Wouldn’t you just host it on your own hardware and basically be another Heroku? This kind of software is complex enough it would take corporate backing (either an industry group or VC backing) so it’s probably not getting built unless there’s a business case. Even Google only released K8s because they thought it would push people towards GCP — which it didn’t because it was too easy for AWS to implement a similar service using Google’s open source tech. The open source freemium model for infrastructure tech is pretty much dead as a result of this kind of activity.

meowface 7y ago
The wrapper can still be something self-hosted. There will always be SaaS/PaaS/IaaS abstractions out there for just about everything; even MySQL. The idea would be for someone to be able to very easily self-host something that's as simple to use and configure and interface with as AWS EKS or Google GKE. I have no idea what business case there'd be to open source it. Maybe some open source devs with former experience at a big company will create one just for fun after they leave the company? Who knows. It'll probably happen eventually, by someone, either way.
- wayoutthere 7y ago
  Would you do your day job “just for fun” after you just quit? The reality is that most of this technology — especially around infrastructure — has become so complex at scale that the tech strategy and the business strategy are the same thing. So infrastructure software has to match your business architecture which is largely dictated to a technology org. Which is why “tech ops” these days is largely just “ops” — the technological complexity is a reaction to increased business sophistication, not the other way around.
  - meowface 7y ago
    Me? No. But some people seem to like to do that. And some people do seem to be genuinely very passionate about infrastructure and such. Kubernetes can be applied to a lot of different business and technological architectures, I think, and a simpler alternative could be similarly general.
bdcravens 7y ago
> it was too easy for AWS to implement a similar service using Google’s open source tech AWS had the most K8S deployments even before they released EKS, according to the CNCF: https://www.cncf.io/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/cncf_survey_graphics-09.jpg https://www.cncf.io/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/cncf_survey_g...

atq2119 7y ago

Or perhaps somebody will evolve Kubernetes itself into becoming simpler? I know that's a pipe dream, but really, why does it have to be? What would have to happen for people to actually work on making existing things simpler and better factored rather than reinventing the wheel? My personal theory is that it's largely because that kind of work simply isn't being valued highly enough. Reinventing the wheel is a much lower friction path to take and has a higher chance of being rewarded highly. It shouldn't be like that, though.

mst 7y ago
I think k3s is sort of trying to do that?
- StavrosK 7y ago
  Have you tried it? Is it any good? I've been looking for a simpler Kubernetes, although I don't know how much simpler it can be in practice and still do the same things.
  - cbluth 7y ago
    I've tried k3s, and while I was impressed, it leaves out several important features. RKE is a great alternative, and kubespray is quite stable well.
gerbilly 7y ago
How about Hashicorp nomad? (https://www.nomadproject.io/ https://www.nomadproject.io/)
pvorb 7y ago
The problem with making things simpler is compatibility. If you make something simpler, but don't stay compatible, it might be better to just find a new name for your simple version.
jldugger 7y ago
Do we even need k8s for a personal blog? What problem does it solve for someone coming from docker or a VM? k8s is a building block one can use to provide a simpler service, and if you want to convince anyone it needs a refactoring, maybe provide some specifics?

reilly3000 7y ago

That would be knative.

nisa 7y ago

> Odds are someone / some people will create some kind of simpler solution with an easy default setup within the next ~5 years. I know it's not the same but Docker Swarm is pretty great if you just want to deploy some container images on a single host or a cluster - this guide covers setup + traefik + swarmpit ui https://dockerswarm.rocks https://dockerswarm.rocks