7 ms·
Google bans family cafe for offensive content for posting photo of British dish
- metalliqaz 7y agoIt's pretty clear who will win this one. Google. Even though the word isn't a pejorative in England, it will disappear because online it's status in the US is what matters.
- faceplanted 7y agoFaggot is still a pejorative in the UK, it's just _also_ a food.
- hprotagonist 7y agoAnd also (by way of `fascis`), a bundle of wood. Quoting etymonline.com here, The explanation that male homosexuals were called faggots because they were burned at the stake as punishment is an etymological urban legend. Burning sometimes was a punishment meted out to homosexuals in Christian Europe (on the suggestion of the Biblical fate of Sodom and Gomorrah), but in England, where parliament had made homosexuality a capital offense in 1533, hanging was the method prescribed. Use of faggot in connection with public executions had long been obscure English historical trivia by the time the word began to be used for "male homosexual" in 20th century American slang, whereas the contemptuous slang word for "woman" (in common with the other possible sources or influences listed here) was in active use early 20c., by D.H. Lawrence and James Joyce, among others. https://www.etymonline.com/word/faggot#etymonline_v_1077 https://www.etymonline.com/word/faggot#etymonline_v_1077
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- inflatableDodo 7y agoThe word is a perjorative for homosexual across the UK and in the private boys schools since the 1700's, fagging has been the term used to describe the practice of senior pupils enslaving younger ones, who are then known as fags. The perjorative is the most common use, however it also describes a food and small bits of firewood. People generally seem to work out the meaning from the context relatively easily, homonyms being a thing. To illustrate, here is a picture of a man with a giant cock - http://cdn.ecommercedns.uk/files/5/227995/1/5014991/kmk023-huge.jpg http://cdn.ecommercedns.uk/files/5/227995/1/5014991/kmk023-h...
- Nursie 7y agoFags and Fagging are a different root to Faggot, IMHO, which definitely seems more American. I went to a minor public school and though fagging had been abolished many years prior, the first year of the senior school (age... 12/13ish) were still informally known as the fags. It wasn't particularly a homophobic slur, IIRC, though playground homophobia was rife back then (around 1990) so who knows really. I do know I see "Faggot" used more for the food than as a slur these days, but then I don't hang around the *chans...
- hprotagonist 7y agofag/fagging is probably from the verb form, "to tire out/exhaust" -- ie, underclassmen get to do all the work. Why the verb "to fag" means what it does seems to be an open question, and doesn't seem to be related to the pile-of-sticks root. https://www.etymonline.com/word/fag?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_1075 https://www.etymonline.com/word/fag?ref=etymonline_crossrefe...
- inflatableDodo 7y agoI hear 'faggot' being used more often as a slur than as the food, with the term 'fag' used pretty much synonymously. Then again, I'm a man who sleeps with other men, went to a crumbling concrete block of a state school and often can be found working in factory environments and hanging around with bikers. I guess it varies greatly according to one's milieu.
- RandomInteger4 7y agoYou realize that ads can be targeted to locations, correct?
- hnsocks 7y agoWho would ban Google ? Abuser of the internet. Privacy rights violator.
- zer0faith 7y agoI'd be curious to know if this was found by a algorithm or a person.
- mark-r 7y agoSince we're talking about Google, it's 99.999% likely to be an algorithm.
- _bxg1 7y agoIt's pretty understandable that they'd get flagged for the word as a result of oversimplified heuristics. However, it should also be expected that there'd be an appeals process for (inevitable) mistakes like this. But of course Google declines to put any effort into that sort of thing, so here we are.
- ajross 7y agoFrom the article it doesn't look like an appeal was even attempted, though. In fact, it doesn't even look like the journalist herself tried to get a statement from Google before publishing. Also, it's worth pointing out that the headline is wrong. The cafe wasn't "banned", Google rejected an ad purchase. I think it's very reasonable to ding Google on bad customer service where they won't provide it. But you still need to ask for that service first.
- closetohome 7y agoI was heavily downvoted for pointing out more or less the same thing. Seems someone wants to maintain the appearance of it being a reputable source.
- yodon 7y agoMore likely you were downvoted both there and here for complaining about downvoting. If you post on HN, you will occasionally get downvoted for reasons you don't understand. Don't complain and don't try to tell people why you were getting downvoted. The former just annoys everyone, and the later is often comically incorrect in misunderstanding and leads to more aggressive downvoting.
- closetohome 7y ago> DON't cOMPlaIN aNd doN't tRY To TEll pEoPLe Why YOu WEre GeTTinG dOWnvOted
- hprotagonist 7y agothe scunthorpe problem will never die. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scunthorpe_problem https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scunthorpe_problem
- pwinnski 7y agoThe irony of banning a UK ad because a word is offensive in the US, while letting other ads for the same place which name includes a word offensive in the UK (but not the US), is delicious. The internet is American, apparently.
- Nursie 7y ago"Fag" is colloquial British slang for cigarette too. In very common use when I was a smoker, but that's a decade back now.
- inflatableDodo 7y agoAm still a smoker, people are still asking for twosies on fags.
- stinkyball 7y ago"Can I bum a fag?" still being used too!
- inflatableDodo 7y agoTrue. People even manage to ask if they can have a wee suck on my fag when I'm done 'cos they are absolutely gagging, without even giggling once.
- indy 7y agoTop tip: If your British and flying to the US don't say "I could murder a fag" as soon as you step off the airplane. ("I could murder a fag" === "I really want to smoke a cigarette")
- jsilence 7y agoYou're
- tombrossman 7y ago
- GuB-42 7y agoGoogle algorithms could use some improvement... Searching for "faggots and peas" in Google correctly identifies the dish. Even the urban dictionary (linked by Google) describes the dish first. Looks like they went with a simple word list rather than use their own engine. Or maybe Google finds the dish itself offensive, a recurring theme with British cuisine :)
- Nursie 7y agoFor Americans.... In this case Faggots are basically big meatballs made from the cheaper cuts of meat as well as some liver. I guess think meatloaf, but in ball form. Same sort economic niche, not a poverty food but something for people on a budget. Usually served with peas and thick, brown onion gravy. Can be a pretty good, hearty meal. It's years since I've had it though, as it's not really from my region.
- DanBC 7y agoFor some reason the HN software killed your other comment in this thread. This one: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20920071 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20920071 I vouched for it, but I have no idea if my vouches count for anything.
- Nursie 7y agoThat's pretty ironic :)
- perl4ever 7y agoI wonder how it compares to Shanghainese lion's head meatballs. I recently had those and they were very different from typical American meatballs or meatloaf. The meat was much more coarsely cut up, for one thing.
- julienreszka 7y agoI would be infuriated if something like this happened to my business. Is this real? It looks like a joke.
- closetohome 7y agoThe story is real, but the site is an outlet for right-wing propaganda, so I'd take it with a grain of salt. You can tell from the downvotes. People seem suspiciously intent on presenting this as a legitimate source.
- vmilner 7y agoSee also (2013) https://metro.co.uk/2013/11/06/faggots-firm-fights-for-its-food-on-facebook-4176812/ https://metro.co.uk/2013/11/06/faggots-firm-fights-for-its-f...
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- nullc 7y agoI was expecting spotted dick.
- Digit-Al 7y agoDitto.
- goatinaboat 7y agoI am reminded of the conference NIPS being forced to re-brand because the word “nips” is offensive apparently. It’s not been used as a racial pejorative since the 1940s. A nip is a synonym for a wee dram, over here, if it means anything at all. Or an abbreviation of catnip perhaps.
- xkcd-sucks 7y ago"Documenting the wild nip of New England" https://www.instagram.com/fireball_newengland/ https://www.instagram.com/fireball_newengland/
- hprotagonist 7y agoand IIRC the hubbub was over "nip -> nipple" anyway.
- goatinaboat 7y agoScraping the very bottom of the outrage barrel. Oops I said bottom! It worked though, the NIPS organisers rolled over straight away. Just what you want in people who might need to make an ethical stand over abuse of their work.
- finnthehuman 7y agoNips means something similar here, it’s our only word for those small single-serving prepackaged shots of liquor. And they’re the first thing I think of when I hear “nips” without context. You can use it to mean a poured drink too, but it’s only common with older people here. The renaming of NIPS was just some uptight busybodies that got too much attention.
- microtherion 7y agoWhen I read the headline, my first guess was that this was about Spotted Dick.
- PorterDuff 7y agolol. I entered this thread purely to post the same comment.
- walshemj 7y agoI bet Nigella Lawson has the similar problem on her cookery sites :-)
- Digit-Al 7y agoThis seems odd to me. With products such as Translate Google is investing a lot of time and money into understanding context in language. (I imagine it's helpful for search as well.) It seems inconceivable that their "context engine" could misunderstand "faggots and peas" considering a Google search for that gives many valid results, and it seems unlikely that they wouldn't apply such context understanding across their product line. Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting it's not true, I'm just puzzled as to how it could happen.
- scarejunba 7y agoEven in a 200 person company there are often product inconsistencies. Think about how you'd build this thing in a minimal way. You wouldn't "integrate with the context-aware Translate or Search API", you'd "just build a blacklist and improve it if necessary". It's not at all unbelievable.
- jrochkind1 7y agoIn 2019, I have to wonder if in fact someone knew exactly what they were doing, and engineering this controversy. OK, but probably not. (Is "faggot" not actually a pejorative for gay in the UK?) But the question should at least be entertained.
- ghostbrainalpha 7y agoI think your original intuition might be right. I've been to Fanny's and ordered this dish. It was nothing special, and definitely not ad worthy, unless some marketing company is literally making ads out of every single thing on the menu. Edit: Apparently my pallet is wrong. The Faggots received several positive mentions on the Trip Adviser Page, so it may make sense to promote that as a featured item. https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g186463-d3361001-Reviews-Fanny_s_Rest_Stop-Newport_South_Wales_Wales.html https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g186463-d33610...
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- FearNotDaniel 7y agoThis reads like the kind of anti-European 'outrage' the Daily Mail has been spouting for the last 30 years or so. I suppose they have to find a new target now. Google is the new EU?
- iron0013 7y agoI’m not sure I’ve ever seen a site that was more transparently a propaganda operation than reclaimthenet.org