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> Python core dev pretended Python 3 was good and ready by, like, 3.1. It wasn't. I would expect any stable release of software to be "good and ready." Can you

by johnmaguire2013 7y ago

> Python core dev pretended Python 3 was good and ready by, like, 3.1. It wasn't. I would expect any stable release of software to be "good and ready." Can you explain what was wrong with Python 3.0 and 3.1? > core dev did not listen to any of the problems people pointed out for _years_ What problems were those?

kortilla 7y ago
Strings in python3 were terrible for memory well into mid-3. Raymond Hettinger is a core dev and he recently stated on Twitter that he didn’t feel py3 was a clear upgrade win until this most current release.
- zurtex 7y ago
  Raymond has been consistent in saying Python 3.6.1 was the release where Python 3 became better than Python 2. That was March 21, 2017, and we're now in Python 3.7.4. I appreciate the general point that that's far more recent than Python 3s initial release but it's also a large exaggeration to say "until this most current release". Also to understand why it took so long is because Python 2 kept improving after Python 3s release. Python 2.7 was a great release and many further features from Python 3 got backported in it's 2.7.x point release.
  - kortilla 7y ago
    Sorry, I misremembered. 3.8 is the first one he said is a clear winner: https://twitter.com/raymondh/status/1167218640095043586 https://twitter.com/raymondh/status/1167218640095043586
  - loeg 7y ago
    2017 is a lot more recent than 2008 (Py 3.0).
mixmastamyk 7y ago
There were very few new features, only breaking changes. With the exception of Unicode defaults which few yet understood.
ben509 7y ago
A major, breaking issue[1] was how Python 3 handled missing LC_* variables. By default, a Python script would simply crash with any non-ASCII input or output. It was fixed[2] in 3.5[3]. [1]: https://bugs.python.org/issue19977 https://bugs.python.org/issue19977 [2]: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0540/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0540/ [3]: https://docs.python.org/release/3.5.0/whatsnew/3.5.html https://docs.python.org/release/3.5.0/whatsnew/3.5.html

kortilla 7y ago

Strings in python3 were terrible for memory well into mid-3. Raymond Hettinger is a core dev and he recently stated on Twitter that he didn’t feel py3 was a clear upgrade win until this most current release.

zurtex 7y ago
Raymond has been consistent in saying Python 3.6.1 was the release where Python 3 became better than Python 2. That was March 21, 2017, and we're now in Python 3.7.4. I appreciate the general point that that's far more recent than Python 3s initial release but it's also a large exaggeration to say "until this most current release". Also to understand why it took so long is because Python 2 kept improving after Python 3s release. Python 2.7 was a great release and many further features from Python 3 got backported in it's 2.7.x point release.
- kortilla 7y ago
  Sorry, I misremembered. 3.8 is the first one he said is a clear winner: https://twitter.com/raymondh/status/1167218640095043586 https://twitter.com/raymondh/status/1167218640095043586
- loeg 7y ago
  2017 is a lot more recent than 2008 (Py 3.0).

mixmastamyk 7y ago

There were very few new features, only breaking changes. With the exception of Unicode defaults which few yet understood.

ben509 7y ago

A major, breaking issue[1] was how Python 3 handled missing LC_* variables. By default, a Python script would simply crash with any non-ASCII input or output. It was fixed[2] in 3.5[3]. [1]: https://bugs.python.org/issue19977 https://bugs.python.org/issue19977 [2]: https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0540/ https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0540/ [3]: https://docs.python.org/release/3.5.0/whatsnew/3.5.html https://docs.python.org/release/3.5.0/whatsnew/3.5.html