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Something about all the sudden bans in flavored, (enjoyable) vapes, mixed with the fear mongering all over the news makes me feel like this is all FUD being pus

Something about all the sudden bans in flavored, (enjoyable) vapes, mixed with the fear mongering all over the news makes me feel like this is all FUD being pushed by the tobacco industry. I mean, consider what’s happening. “Why vape if it’s flavorless and tasteless? At that point, I might as well stick to my Marlboro Reds, at least they have some established flavor” - I’m just playing devils advocate. And about the “Think of the children!” replies - Classic red herring fallacy. Decent parenting and better local regulation could solve this problem. Or maybe it wouldn’t. Teenagers under the smoking age buy cigarettes every day, so vaping is no different. I realize people are getting sick, but why is everyone acting like it’s “average” people getting sick like this? It’s those “HUGE CLOUD XD” people who are taking ridiculous sized rips, and black market THC vape carts. Juuls aren’t perfect, but their popularity and the losses to the tobacco industry’s profits make me wonder.... Very similar to the FUD campaign put out against La Croix last year when the 18-24 crowd stopped drinking soda, and started drinking sparkling water instead. Source: https://nypost.com/2018/10/05/la-croix-hit-with-class-action-lawsuit-over-ingredient-found-in-cockroach-insecticide/ https://nypost.com/2018/10/05/la-croix-hit-with-class-action...

soulofmischief 7y ago
> It’s those “HUGE CLOUD XD” people who are taking ridiculous sized rips, and black market THC vape carts. Juuls aren’t perfect, but their popularity and the losses to the tobacco industry’s profits make me wonder.... From what I understand, the issue is almost purely surrounding THC carts because of the lipids many producers use to increase the THC's solubility. People who make those big clouds are using high concentrations of vegetable glycerin which has not yet been shown to contribute to this illness and has several decades of established prior use. It helps to be less judgemental about others' lifestyles and stick to the facts.
- qzx_pierri 7y ago
  > It helps to be less judgemental about others' lifestyles and stick to the facts. Sorry if I came off as judgemental. With that being said, we're still unsure of the long terms effects of vaping. Those hobbyists who set their temps to ridiculously high levels and push their coil designs to the max are definitely taking it too far. I don't have a source for this claim, but rock with me on this one. Inhaling anything other than air isn't good for your lungs, and huge, HOT vape clouds aren't innocent in this discussion. I could almost argue that people who engage in that type of behavior are abusing vapes, especially when you consider what e-cigarettes were originally designed to do. I could also reference the numerous articles (.gov) that connects 'diacetyl', a flavorant used in numerous vape juices, to "popcorn lung". However, my original intent wasn't to attack vaping, but the people who take it way too far, and give casual e-cig users a bad image.
  - soulofmischief 7y ago
    You're still passing undue judgement and exhibiting stereotypical categorization towards people who use atomizers, without having all the facts. Most of these people don't push their temps to the max because it ruins the flavor and destroys the compound. They actually use very precise temperature control and a higher temp doesn't mean more clouds. Except for extreme temperatures, temperature has also not been cited as contributing to this epidemic. > Inhaling anything other than air isn't good for your lungs What is "air"? The air quality where I live is pretty awful and filled with contaminants. Also, can you point to a case where inhaling marijuana smoke/vapor has lead to cancer or serious disease? Not all smoke/vapor is created equal. It matters what its composed of.
    - qzx_pierri 7y ago
      I can tell you aren’t willing to understand my argument, so I’ll just slowly back away.
      - soulofmischief 7y ago
        We can respectfully disagree without you attempting to discredit my ability to understand what you're trying to say. The fact is, regardless of what either of us believe, that this is an ill-formed opinion of yours and it needs more work. Instead of being quick to double down, consider working to refine it by listening to what others have to say.
woodrowbarlow 7y ago
> Juuls aren’t perfect, but their popularity and the losses to the tobacco industry’s profits make me wonder.... juul and marlboro are both owned by the same company.
- qzx_pierri 7y ago
  Ah, I didn't realize that. +1 However, when you consider the shift away from tobacco products, my point still stands. Vaping is something that can be produced by small time entrepreneurs, so the power is still being taken away from big tobacco. How many people can realistically grow tobacco? How many people can start making their own vape juices? I'd say a lot - This claim is corroborated by the article, which discusses these small time, 'fly by night' companies making their own vape cartridges (albeit very poorly).
  - chungus_khan 7y ago
    Companies like Phillip Morris/Altria also do understand that this kind of situation is semi-temporary however. Yes, anyone can make their own, but with the combination of marketing/name recognition and economies of scale (alongside existing industry connections) they can maintain a dominant position in the market with Juul as the overall market grows and solidifies. I'm sure they'd love to maintain the old status quo if they could, but this sort of thing is probably the right play at migrating big tobacco into the new world given that they can't.
    - qzx_pierri 7y ago
      I agree with you, but that sounds like a great Plan B. The first step would be to spread fear via the delegitimization of vaping, and convince people that vaping is deadly RIGHT THIS SECOND. Of course most people know smoking will kill you, but it’s better than the “Vape Boogeyman” being portrayed. Source: Cognitive Dissonance.
fortran77 7y ago
> . Decent parenting and better local regulation could solve this problem. I never had any desire to smoke or do drugs even though all my friends did. I'm 56 years old and hung out with musicians all my life. I've done gigs with guys who were shooting heroin and snorting coke. I had good parents.
forgotmypwd123 7y ago
Worried about the possible dangers of certain flavors, I tried "flavorless" e-liquid (6mg) and it tastes TERRIBLE. Its not flavorless, its unflavored, and the nicotine (and possibly also the VG/PG) tastes like pre-chewed nicotine gum.

soulofmischief 7y ago

> It’s those “HUGE CLOUD XD” people who are taking ridiculous sized rips, and black market THC vape carts. Juuls aren’t perfect, but their popularity and the losses to the tobacco industry’s profits make me wonder.... From what I understand, the issue is almost purely surrounding THC carts because of the lipids many producers use to increase the THC's solubility. People who make those big clouds are using high concentrations of vegetable glycerin which has not yet been shown to contribute to this illness and has several decades of established prior use. It helps to be less judgemental about others' lifestyles and stick to the facts.

qzx_pierri 7y ago
> It helps to be less judgemental about others' lifestyles and stick to the facts. Sorry if I came off as judgemental. With that being said, we're still unsure of the long terms effects of vaping. Those hobbyists who set their temps to ridiculously high levels and push their coil designs to the max are definitely taking it too far. I don't have a source for this claim, but rock with me on this one. Inhaling anything other than air isn't good for your lungs, and huge, HOT vape clouds aren't innocent in this discussion. I could almost argue that people who engage in that type of behavior are abusing vapes, especially when you consider what e-cigarettes were originally designed to do. I could also reference the numerous articles (.gov) that connects 'diacetyl', a flavorant used in numerous vape juices, to "popcorn lung". However, my original intent wasn't to attack vaping, but the people who take it way too far, and give casual e-cig users a bad image.
- soulofmischief 7y ago
  You're still passing undue judgement and exhibiting stereotypical categorization towards people who use atomizers, without having all the facts. Most of these people don't push their temps to the max because it ruins the flavor and destroys the compound. They actually use very precise temperature control and a higher temp doesn't mean more clouds. Except for extreme temperatures, temperature has also not been cited as contributing to this epidemic. > Inhaling anything other than air isn't good for your lungs What is "air"? The air quality where I live is pretty awful and filled with contaminants. Also, can you point to a case where inhaling marijuana smoke/vapor has lead to cancer or serious disease? Not all smoke/vapor is created equal. It matters what its composed of.
  - qzx_pierri 7y ago
    I can tell you aren’t willing to understand my argument, so I’ll just slowly back away.
    - soulofmischief 7y ago
      We can respectfully disagree without you attempting to discredit my ability to understand what you're trying to say. The fact is, regardless of what either of us believe, that this is an ill-formed opinion of yours and it needs more work. Instead of being quick to double down, consider working to refine it by listening to what others have to say.

woodrowbarlow 7y ago

> Juuls aren’t perfect, but their popularity and the losses to the tobacco industry’s profits make me wonder.... juul and marlboro are both owned by the same company.

qzx_pierri 7y ago
Ah, I didn't realize that. +1 However, when you consider the shift away from tobacco products, my point still stands. Vaping is something that can be produced by small time entrepreneurs, so the power is still being taken away from big tobacco. How many people can realistically grow tobacco? How many people can start making their own vape juices? I'd say a lot - This claim is corroborated by the article, which discusses these small time, 'fly by night' companies making their own vape cartridges (albeit very poorly).
- chungus_khan 7y ago
  Companies like Phillip Morris/Altria also do understand that this kind of situation is semi-temporary however. Yes, anyone can make their own, but with the combination of marketing/name recognition and economies of scale (alongside existing industry connections) they can maintain a dominant position in the market with Juul as the overall market grows and solidifies. I'm sure they'd love to maintain the old status quo if they could, but this sort of thing is probably the right play at migrating big tobacco into the new world given that they can't.
  - qzx_pierri 7y ago
    I agree with you, but that sounds like a great Plan B. The first step would be to spread fear via the delegitimization of vaping, and convince people that vaping is deadly RIGHT THIS SECOND. Of course most people know smoking will kill you, but it’s better than the “Vape Boogeyman” being portrayed. Source: Cognitive Dissonance.

fortran77 7y ago

> . Decent parenting and better local regulation could solve this problem. I never had any desire to smoke or do drugs even though all my friends did. I'm 56 years old and hung out with musicians all my life. I've done gigs with guys who were shooting heroin and snorting coke. I had good parents.

forgotmypwd123 7y ago

Worried about the possible dangers of certain flavors, I tried "flavorless" e-liquid (6mg) and it tastes TERRIBLE. Its not flavorless, its unflavored, and the nicotine (and possibly also the VG/PG) tastes like pre-chewed nicotine gum.