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Doesn't really mean anything if the materials aren't local to the region. People in bronze age scandinavia were trading for copper with the mediterranean so the

Doesn't really mean anything if the materials aren't local to the region. People in bronze age scandinavia were trading for copper with the mediterranean so there was a "global" trade network already in place.

posterboy 7y ago
while I don't doubt trade was a thing then, isn't your comparison an anachronism, like BC vs AD?
ilimilku 7y ago
It has to do with the scholarly consensus of the local, i.e. Khirbet Qumran, origin of the scrolls, namely that they were produced at that settlement. Contrary views say that they scrolls were principally produced in or around Jerusalem and brought to Qumran during the Roman invasion of CE 70.
BurningFrog 7y ago
> People in bronze age scandinavia were trading for copper with the mediterranean Sorry to make a minor point, but while the goods scandinavian and mediterranean goods travelled that far, doesn't mean the people did. Perhaps more likely, each was traded a dozen times with someone 50km away, and the goods reached people the manufacturer had no idea existed.
- tabtab 7y ago
  Re: more likely, each was traded a dozen times...the goods reached people the manufacturer had no idea existed. Some things never change: https://www.steelavailable.com/en/counterfeit-steel-big-worry-industry/ https://www.steelavailable.com/en/counterfeit-steel-big-worr...
- Retric 7y ago
  Transaction costs limit how many people are in these chains. It’s far more common for individual merchants to be paying taxes to several groups vs large numbers of groups being involved in the trading.
- dredmorbius 7y ago
  Given that goods typically moved by water (far less energy than overland), possibilities of longer voyages are somewhat more credible. I don't know the actual history / archaeology, or quantities involved. Europe does have a remarkably good inland navigable river network. There's mention here that Scandinavians raided Mediterranian coastal towns and villages: https://www.realmofhistory.com/2016/05/17/cypriot-copper-axes-bronze-age-sweden/ https://www.realmofhistory.com/2016/05/17/cypriot-copper-axe... This map suggests a possible eastern route (the accompanying web page makes no mention of Sweden, scandinavia, or the Baltics): http://theancientneareast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Trade-network-0011.png http://theancientneareast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Tra... (from: http://theancientneareast.com/the-bronze-age-world-system/ http://theancientneareast.com/the-bronze-age-world-system/) Travel along the Donau, Dneiper, or Don rivers could have reached the Black Sea: https://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/euriv.gif https://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/euriv.gif This article and map suggest sea routes, through the Straits of Gibraltar: https://www.speroforum.com/a/ROURBRXIJL49/77965-Ancient-trade-from-Mediterranean-to-Scandinavia-revealed https://www.speroforum.com/a/ROURBRXIJL49/77965-Ancient-trad...

posterboy 7y ago

while I don't doubt trade was a thing then, isn't your comparison an anachronism, like BC vs AD?

ilimilku 7y ago

It has to do with the scholarly consensus of the local, i.e. Khirbet Qumran, origin of the scrolls, namely that they were produced at that settlement. Contrary views say that they scrolls were principally produced in or around Jerusalem and brought to Qumran during the Roman invasion of CE 70.

BurningFrog 7y ago

> People in bronze age scandinavia were trading for copper with the mediterranean Sorry to make a minor point, but while the goods scandinavian and mediterranean goods travelled that far, doesn't mean the people did. Perhaps more likely, each was traded a dozen times with someone 50km away, and the goods reached people the manufacturer had no idea existed.

tabtab 7y ago
Re: more likely, each was traded a dozen times...the goods reached people the manufacturer had no idea existed. Some things never change: https://www.steelavailable.com/en/counterfeit-steel-big-worry-industry/ https://www.steelavailable.com/en/counterfeit-steel-big-worr...
Retric 7y ago
Transaction costs limit how many people are in these chains. It’s far more common for individual merchants to be paying taxes to several groups vs large numbers of groups being involved in the trading.
dredmorbius 7y ago
Given that goods typically moved by water (far less energy than overland), possibilities of longer voyages are somewhat more credible. I don't know the actual history / archaeology, or quantities involved. Europe does have a remarkably good inland navigable river network. There's mention here that Scandinavians raided Mediterranian coastal towns and villages: https://www.realmofhistory.com/2016/05/17/cypriot-copper-axes-bronze-age-sweden/ https://www.realmofhistory.com/2016/05/17/cypriot-copper-axe... This map suggests a possible eastern route (the accompanying web page makes no mention of Sweden, scandinavia, or the Baltics): http://theancientneareast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Trade-network-0011.png http://theancientneareast.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Tra... (from: http://theancientneareast.com/the-bronze-age-world-system/ http://theancientneareast.com/the-bronze-age-world-system/) Travel along the Donau, Dneiper, or Don rivers could have reached the Black Sea: https://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/euriv.gif https://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/euriv.gif This article and map suggest sea routes, through the Straits of Gibraltar: https://www.speroforum.com/a/ROURBRXIJL49/77965-Ancient-trade-from-Mediterranean-to-Scandinavia-revealed https://www.speroforum.com/a/ROURBRXIJL49/77965-Ancient-trad...