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Ugh? Many systems still run COBOL today. Python 2 is likely to be around for a long time. Since the stuff is open source, wouldn't it be nicer if it was possibl

by d--b 7y ago

Ugh? Many systems still run COBOL today. Python 2 is likely to be around for a long time. Since the stuff is open source, wouldn't it be nicer if it was possible to fix a bug if needed? Not saying that it should be actively worked on. But maybe one person could be appointed to look over bug fix pull requests (which shouldn't be that frequent these days).

VBprogrammer 7y ago
As someone who works on a 99% Python 2 codebase I think this is a very necessary step. Hopefully one of our larger customers will realise we are still running their critical infrastructure on Python 2 and make enough of a fuss that we can justify the expense.
- melling 7y ago
  It was announced in 2014 that support was ending in 2020. It seems a bit wrong to surprise a customer now.
  - VBprogrammer 7y ago
    We have a more complicated relationship with our customers than that implied. Suffice to say they wouldn't actually be footing the bill.
- liveoneggs 7y ago
  even if you do the same thing will happen with python 4; these languages are not built with long term stability in mind
unionpivo 7y ago
thats the worst kind of limbo, sort of supported and official but not really. I fully support them in this. Either you support it right, or you abandon/sunset it clearly. If someone else wants to step up and do the work, they can always do that on their own.
- aequitas 7y ago
  Indeed, plus people will still come knocking at their door for Python 2 issues. And if you tell them to contact someone else for support people will still be upset. Imho communicating EOL is the only way to go. Others can pick up legacy support under a different name. People will find them and it will be clear it's a different team.
CogitoCogito 7y ago
The PSF isn't stopping anyone from continuing support. They are only stopping people from calling it Python 2 which is 100% reasonable given that (1) that is trademarked and associated with them and (2) they don't want others' confused about their association with the projects. By the way this is market opportunity that HN readers might consider. If you think you can make money supporting Python 2, then start working. Who knows it could be a gold mine.
dagw 7y ago
Many systems still run COBOL today The latest official COBOL spec is COBOL 2014 and there are at least two or three competing companies out there that will happily sell you up to date COBOL tools and compilers. So while COBOL may be old, there are still new 'exciting' things happening in the COBOL space.
- crusader1099 7y ago
  > there are still new 'exciting' things happening in the COBOL space. Out of interest, does anyone know if new COBOL specs add any major language features or are they just low-profile security fixes and things.
  - rodgerd 7y ago
    Adding threading support some years ago was pretty major. JSON API support was added to CICS/COBOL in 2014-ish.
  - dagw 7y ago
    I know they added an object oriented extension to the language a few years ago that was rather controversial.
nudpiedo 7y ago
Just don’t let your technical debt fossilize. At the beginning seems like a good idea to invest little money in supporting legacy rather than migrating it, but for example, supporting and maintaining COBOL applications is a huge headache. Companies even pay big bucks for formation of new professionals and integrate the old solutions with modern applications is not even that easy since some of the OS are even alien to TCP/IP interfaces let alone modern programming interfaces (and there is nothing worse than an HTML interface on top of the old non ANSI terminal interface, even if you knew where the F21 used to be)
WilliamEdward 7y ago
COBOL has an upgraded version? Besides, legacy is not a perfect excuse for using python 2 since it's so similar to 3 and with some amount of effort you could port it over quite easily.
- dagw 7y ago
  COBOL has an upgraded version? Latest version of the COBOL standard is COBOL 2014 (AKA the same year python 3.4 was released).

by d--b 7y ago

VBprogrammer 7y ago

As someone who works on a 99% Python 2 codebase I think this is a very necessary step. Hopefully one of our larger customers will realise we are still running their critical infrastructure on Python 2 and make enough of a fuss that we can justify the expense.

melling 7y ago
It was announced in 2014 that support was ending in 2020. It seems a bit wrong to surprise a customer now.
- VBprogrammer 7y ago
  We have a more complicated relationship with our customers than that implied. Suffice to say they wouldn't actually be footing the bill.
liveoneggs 7y ago
even if you do the same thing will happen with python 4; these languages are not built with long term stability in mind

unionpivo 7y ago

thats the worst kind of limbo, sort of supported and official but not really. I fully support them in this. Either you support it right, or you abandon/sunset it clearly. If someone else wants to step up and do the work, they can always do that on their own.

aequitas 7y ago
Indeed, plus people will still come knocking at their door for Python 2 issues. And if you tell them to contact someone else for support people will still be upset. Imho communicating EOL is the only way to go. Others can pick up legacy support under a different name. People will find them and it will be clear it's a different team.

CogitoCogito 7y ago

The PSF isn't stopping anyone from continuing support. They are only stopping people from calling it Python 2 which is 100% reasonable given that (1) that is trademarked and associated with them and (2) they don't want others' confused about their association with the projects. By the way this is market opportunity that HN readers might consider. If you think you can make money supporting Python 2, then start working. Who knows it could be a gold mine.

dagw 7y ago

Many systems still run COBOL today The latest official COBOL spec is COBOL 2014 and there are at least two or three competing companies out there that will happily sell you up to date COBOL tools and compilers. So while COBOL may be old, there are still new 'exciting' things happening in the COBOL space.

crusader1099 7y ago
> there are still new 'exciting' things happening in the COBOL space. Out of interest, does anyone know if new COBOL specs add any major language features or are they just low-profile security fixes and things.
- rodgerd 7y ago
  Adding threading support some years ago was pretty major. JSON API support was added to CICS/COBOL in 2014-ish.
- dagw 7y ago
  I know they added an object oriented extension to the language a few years ago that was rather controversial.

nudpiedo 7y ago

Just don’t let your technical debt fossilize. At the beginning seems like a good idea to invest little money in supporting legacy rather than migrating it, but for example, supporting and maintaining COBOL applications is a huge headache. Companies even pay big bucks for formation of new professionals and integrate the old solutions with modern applications is not even that easy since some of the OS are even alien to TCP/IP interfaces let alone modern programming interfaces (and there is nothing worse than an HTML interface on top of the old non ANSI terminal interface, even if you knew where the F21 used to be)

WilliamEdward 7y ago

COBOL has an upgraded version? Besides, legacy is not a perfect excuse for using python 2 since it's so similar to 3 and with some amount of effort you could port it over quite easily.

dagw 7y ago
COBOL has an upgraded version? Latest version of the COBOL standard is COBOL 2014 (AKA the same year python 3.4 was released).