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What does "promoted" look like for an software engineer at large tech companies? In my company you're either an individual contributor or tech lead. There aren'
by skizm 7y ago
What does "promoted" look like for an software engineer at large tech companies? In my company you're either an individual contributor or tech lead. There aren't really any other rungs on the ladder without going to manager.
- bt848 7y agoAt Google there’s an IC ladder from level 3 (new grads) to 11 (Jeff and Sanjay). Basically it’s a pay scale. Half of engineers are below 5, and 90% are below 6. Edit: pretty sure I was off by one originally. But you get the idea: it’s a triangular organization with a lot of people at the base.
- skizm 7y agoAh, okay. Pay scale, got it. Yea we have similar. Just no actual titles.
- dvirsky 7y agoIt's not just about pay, it's also about scope and expectations.
- bt848 7y agoSort of. I didn’t mention it because level doesn’t really limit your scope. If you have a way to make a big impact nobody is going to tell you to not do it because you’re too junior. It’s just that the higher levels are expected to operate at company-wide scope all the time. You can hide your level such that other people don’t see it, which is another difference between Google and my current company where people introduce each other by their titles, which makes me want to quit every time. Nobody at Google has ever said “And now I’d like to turn the meeting over to Principal Engineer Jane Doe”. Most people don’t mention it.
- dvirsky 7y agoI've heard the phrase "well, a T7 said otherwise, who am I to argue" and similar from people.
- bt848 7y agoIt’s up to each individual to make the most of an environment where the utterances of senior engineers are just advice. You don’t need their permission.
- dvirsky 7y agoOf course not, I'm just saying it _is_ part of the current culture to assign hierarchy to levels, probably more so with younger/more junior people. Hierarchy tends to look flat looking down.
- zuhayeer 7y agoFor pay ranges check out some charts we’ve compiled at http://levels.fyi/charts.html http://levels.fyi/charts.html
- generatorguy 7y agoI decided to focus on power engineering instead of software in the mid 2000s since I thought a lot of software jobs would be offshored. Big mistake in terms of compensation!!
- ithkuil 7y agoWhich sucks. Having a technical ladder is important to retain talent and ensure that you maximize the skills your talent pool has. Pure engineering skills (even the thought leadership aspect of it) doesn't directly translate in management skills and often people get "rewarded" by promoting them to a position where they can no longer use the very skills they have been promoted for. Related concept / good read: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle
- joshuamorton 7y agoThe engineering ladder doesn't ever become a management ladder. You can transfer, but you don't have to.
- ithkuil 7y agoI was referring to those companies where the only opportunity to e.g. make more money was to go to management.
- bitadder 7y agoCheck out levels.fyi to get an idea per company. At Google, we have "standardized" levels starting at L3 to L10, each with their own compensation range. Google allows you to climb this ladder while remaining an IC. Going to manager has a different progression and it's not an expectation.
- mytailorisrich 7y agoIt's very common to have a range of titles like: engineer, senior engineer, principal engineer, senior principal engineer, technical director. This obviously goes hand in hand with higher pay and increased role and input. In general you might lead others from principal engineer upwards.