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Whale Songs Have Dropped the Equivalent Of 3 White Keys on a Piano In 50 Years

1 points by ilamont 7y ago

ksaj 7y ago
Which 3 white keys? There is a half-step difference between C through E, and D through F, even though both are 3 white key distances. The half step from B to C and E to F ensures that "3 white keys" can not be represented as a single distance. A half step of a single note (specifically, the 3rd white key spoken of in this keyboard analogy) is all it takes to turn a major chord or scale into a minor one, so it isn't insignificant.
- eesmith 7y ago
  The article links that "white key" description to https://www.int-res.com/articles/esr2009/9/n009p013.pdf https://www.int-res.com/articles/esr2009/9/n009p013.pdf which describes it as 31%. Figuring C-F as 2(5/12) = 1.33 . Figuring F-B as 2(5/12) = 1.42 . So, most likely C-F.
  - ksaj 7y ago
    The fact is, the difference in the that third being natural or flat is the single only difference between a major and minor key. That's a huge difference. Wouldn't it make sense to just say Major or Minor Third instead of introducing this rather severe ambiguity? The numbers (cents) are irrelevant because people don't listen to sounds in a way that makes them cognizant of those divisions. And the numerically small differences are huge in musical context. It's why Eastern musicians find Western music to be robotic and perpetually out of tune, and why Westerners find Eastern music to sound almost enigmatic. Small differences, amounting to a huge difference in meaning. Saying "3 white keys" is pretty vague, versus getting right to the point and saying "a major third" or "a minor third." They are both 3 white keys, and they are NOT the same distance. Sonically they sound happy and sad - they are not alike. That tiny number difference is a huge sonic difference. And "3 white keys" definitely is less clear than "major third" or "minor third" since that's actually what we're talking about here. The fact that you had to say "most likely" strongly suggests that simply saying "major" or "minor" third would have been the right course of action here, because even you admit to not knowing which one it is. Or they could have said "2 whole steps" which explicitly points out that it's the further distance (not being one and a half steps, and all). So many ways to not be cryptic about this.
    - eesmith 7y ago
      "Wouldn't it make sense to just say Major or Minor Third instead of introducing this rather severe ambiguity?" Yes. Absolutely. Or just say 31%, rather than a half-assed analogy that is more misunderstood than anything. Even "1/3rd of an octave" would be better. But I was addressing your question of "which".

1 points by ilamont 7y ago

ksaj 7y ago

Which 3 white keys? There is a half-step difference between C through E, and D through F, even though both are 3 white key distances. The half step from B to C and E to F ensures that "3 white keys" can not be represented as a single distance. A half step of a single note (specifically, the 3rd white key spoken of in this keyboard analogy) is all it takes to turn a major chord or scale into a minor one, so it isn't insignificant.

eesmith 7y ago
The article links that "white key" description to https://www.int-res.com/articles/esr2009/9/n009p013.pdf https://www.int-res.com/articles/esr2009/9/n009p013.pdf which describes it as 31%. Figuring C-F as 2(5/12) = 1.33 . Figuring F-B as 2(5/12) = 1.42 . So, most likely C-F.
- ksaj 7y ago
  The fact is, the difference in the that third being natural or flat is the single only difference between a major and minor key. That's a huge difference. Wouldn't it make sense to just say Major or Minor Third instead of introducing this rather severe ambiguity? The numbers (cents) are irrelevant because people don't listen to sounds in a way that makes them cognizant of those divisions. And the numerically small differences are huge in musical context. It's why Eastern musicians find Western music to be robotic and perpetually out of tune, and why Westerners find Eastern music to sound almost enigmatic. Small differences, amounting to a huge difference in meaning. Saying "3 white keys" is pretty vague, versus getting right to the point and saying "a major third" or "a minor third." They are both 3 white keys, and they are NOT the same distance. Sonically they sound happy and sad - they are not alike. That tiny number difference is a huge sonic difference. And "3 white keys" definitely is less clear than "major third" or "minor third" since that's actually what we're talking about here. The fact that you had to say "most likely" strongly suggests that simply saying "major" or "minor" third would have been the right course of action here, because even you admit to not knowing which one it is. Or they could have said "2 whole steps" which explicitly points out that it's the further distance (not being one and a half steps, and all). So many ways to not be cryptic about this.
  - eesmith 7y ago
    "Wouldn't it make sense to just say Major or Minor Third instead of introducing this rather severe ambiguity?" Yes. Absolutely. Or just say 31%, rather than a half-assed analogy that is more misunderstood than anything. Even "1/3rd of an octave" would be better. But I was addressing your question of "which".