11 ms·

How'd she do that? How did she manage to not know the things you know? Probably by not being you.

by ta0987 7y ago

graycat 7y ago
I was not clear enough? Good grief: As I made clear, all she had to do was just look at some pictures, e.g., some of the many ones on record jackets or concert announcements. We can see one quite good example of such an old record jacket cover at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXJLf5jI-54 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXJLf5jI-54 That picture alone shows left hand, right hand, chin, shoulder, and back posture all quite well, and there are more such old record jacket pictures, e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iG9tUJ7Am4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iG9tUJ7Am4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWy8iibtd98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWy8iibtd98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc Of course now there are some just fantastically good videos on JUST how to hold a violin, e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-W3lfcVvY&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-W3lfcVvY&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dBg__wsuo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dBg__wsuo Also good help has long been in a library, e.g., Ivan Galamian, Principles of Violin Playing & Teaching, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, 1962. Galamian was long at Juilliard. Of course, looking carefully at the pictures, will see some differences in the right hand: Heifetz has his little finger barely on the bow and Fischer and Hahn have the little finger more on the bow. The Heifetz approach is sometimes called Russian and the Fischer and Hahn, German. Otherwise all the pictures are very close in how to hold a violin. The record jacket covers did well for me! So, how the heck did she miss all such pictures?
graycat 7y ago
I didn't know those things because I was me. Instead I just learned. The learning was easy, dirt simple -- just look at some long readily available good pictures. That's what I did; it worked very well for me. Once at the farm at Christmas, I was upstairs practicing on violin. Soon a niece about 9 came up to see. I put the violin under her left chin, put the bow in her right hand, and had her play a note, A on the open A string. She held the violin just fine -- one instant lesson. The next day her father asked me "How much is a violin going to cost me?"!!! So, I did a little violin teaching -- not very difficult.
- ta0987 7y ago
  You're missing some of your assumptions. Why would she think she needed to look at pictures of people holding violins and mimic them when she had a teacher telling her how to play? Why would she think that deviations between her technique and others' would risk her health rather than being inconsequential? How would she realize her technique doesn't match these pictures if she's not looking in a mirror while practicing, or using a camera? How would she know that she should be checking her form in a mirror/camera in the first place, especially since she had a teacher watching her play? Etc. Yes there are possible answers to these questions, but not everyone's personality and environment will necessarily lead one to them.
  - graycat 7y ago
    How? Common sense. For more, when pains start. For more, notice other violinists as happen to see them, other students and/or teachers, on TV, at concerts, etc. Don't need a camera or mirror. You seem to be missing the point: I'm trying to indicate a solution, and you and others are angry enough at me to beat me to a pulp and throw my dead body to the sharks. Why? Because I gave an answer, a solution, instead of just dripping empathy without a solution. The OP is not the first time I've seen violinists suffer from holding the violin wrong starting at the beginning. The woman in the OP is not nearly the first. E.g., Zino Francescatti suffered all his career because he held his violin mostly with just his left hand instead of his chin. And, there's a SOLUTION to this problem -- look at some good pictures. Here I may have helped some beginning violin student children of some Hacker News readers. I said over and over, look at some good pictures, e.g., if only from old record jackets, now some Youtube video clips, and lots of people here believe I am a monster to be thrown to the sharks. Bizarre.
    - ta0987 7y ago
      Your original comment started with: Carpel tunnel and tendonitis? How'd she do that? People are not angry because you are proposing a solution, they are angry because you're implying that only a moron would run into a problem that many musicians run into. That it's somehow her fault, because if she hadn't been a moron and looked all those pictures you're talking about then it wouldn't have happened. You seem to be operating from a worldview where everything that is obvious to you must be obvious to everyone else. This worldview is incorrect. And you're not really offering a solution anyway, you're offering a possible way the problem might have been avoided that didn't actually happen in reality. A solution would be a way to make sure all musicians avoid the problem, even ones with teachers that teach them bad technique. Or to somehow make sure no teacher anywhere teaches bad technique and is capable of picking it up in their students and correcting it. You are also assuming that everything you know would be enough to protect you even if you practiced the many hours you need to get to a professional level, even though you yourself have never done it. I didn't feel like challenging this but you should ask yourself why you're so certain something is easy to avoid if you've never put yourself in the position to face it.

How'd she do that? How did she manage to not know the things you know? Probably by not being you.

by ta0987 7y ago

How'd she do that? How did she manage to not know the things you know? Probably by not being you.

I was not clear enough? Good grief: As I made clear, all she had to do was just look at some pictures, e.g., some of the many ones on record jackets or concert announcements. We can see one quite good example of such an old record jacket cover at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXJLf5jI-54 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXJLf5jI-54 That picture alone shows left hand, right hand, chin, shoulder, and back posture all quite well, and there are more such old record jacket pictures, e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iG9tUJ7Am4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iG9tUJ7Am4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWy8iibtd98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWy8iibtd98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc Of course now there are some just fantastically good videos on JUST how to hold a violin, e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-W3lfcVvY&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-W3lfcVvY&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dBg__wsuo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dBg__wsuo Also good help has long been in a library, e.g., Ivan Galamian, Principles of Violin Playing & Teaching, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, 1962. Galamian was long at Juilliard. Of course, looking carefully at the pictures, will see some differences in the right hand: Heifetz has his little finger barely on the bow and Fischer and Hahn have the little finger more on the bow. The Heifetz approach is sometimes called Russian and the Fischer and Hahn, German. Otherwise all the pictures are very close in how to hold a violin. The record jacket covers did well for me! So, how the heck did she miss all such pictures?

graycat 7y ago

I didn't know those things because I was me. Instead I just learned. The learning was easy, dirt simple -- just look at some long readily available good pictures. That's what I did; it worked very well for me. Once at the farm at Christmas, I was upstairs practicing on violin. Soon a niece about 9 came up to see. I put the violin under her left chin, put the bow in her right hand, and had her play a note, A on the open A string. She held the violin just fine -- one instant lesson. The next day her father asked me "How much is a violin going to cost me?"!!! So, I did a little violin teaching -- not very difficult.

ta0987 7y ago
You're missing some of your assumptions. Why would she think she needed to look at pictures of people holding violins and mimic them when she had a teacher telling her how to play? Why would she think that deviations between her technique and others' would risk her health rather than being inconsequential? How would she realize her technique doesn't match these pictures if she's not looking in a mirror while practicing, or using a camera? How would she know that she should be checking her form in a mirror/camera in the first place, especially since she had a teacher watching her play? Etc. Yes there are possible answers to these questions, but not everyone's personality and environment will necessarily lead one to them.
- graycat 7y ago
  How? Common sense. For more, when pains start. For more, notice other violinists as happen to see them, other students and/or teachers, on TV, at concerts, etc. Don't need a camera or mirror. You seem to be missing the point: I'm trying to indicate a solution, and you and others are angry enough at me to beat me to a pulp and throw my dead body to the sharks. Why? Because I gave an answer, a solution, instead of just dripping empathy without a solution. The OP is not the first time I've seen violinists suffer from holding the violin wrong starting at the beginning. The woman in the OP is not nearly the first. E.g., Zino Francescatti suffered all his career because he held his violin mostly with just his left hand instead of his chin. And, there's a SOLUTION to this problem -- look at some good pictures. Here I may have helped some beginning violin student children of some Hacker News readers. I said over and over, look at some good pictures, e.g., if only from old record jackets, now some Youtube video clips, and lots of people here believe I am a monster to be thrown to the sharks. Bizarre.
  - ta0987 7y ago
    Your original comment started with: Carpel tunnel and tendonitis? How'd she do that? People are not angry because you are proposing a solution, they are angry because you're implying that only a moron would run into a problem that many musicians run into. That it's somehow her fault, because if she hadn't been a moron and looked all those pictures you're talking about then it wouldn't have happened. You seem to be operating from a worldview where everything that is obvious to you must be obvious to everyone else. This worldview is incorrect. And you're not really offering a solution anyway, you're offering a possible way the problem might have been avoided that didn't actually happen in reality. A solution would be a way to make sure all musicians avoid the problem, even ones with teachers that teach them bad technique. Or to somehow make sure no teacher anywhere teaches bad technique and is capable of picking it up in their students and correcting it. You are also assuming that everything you know would be enough to protect you even if you practiced the many hours you need to get to a professional level, even though you yourself have never done it. I didn't feel like challenging this but you should ask yourself why you're so certain something is easy to avoid if you've never put yourself in the position to face it.