7 ms·

I decided today to look into what I need to do to legally fly my drone in Canada. I've owned it over a year, but since new regulations came in I've been afraid

by mabbo 7y ago

I decided today to look into what I need to do to legally fly my drone in Canada. I've owned it over a year, but since new regulations came in I've been afraid to use it in case it was done incorrectly. What I've learned so far is that in order to legally fly my drone, I must: 1. Register the drone online for $5 (done, took 2 minutes). 2. Take an exam. They won't tell me what's going to be on the exam, but instead recommend I go to one of a long list of "drone schools" who have 'self declared' that they can teach what will be on the exam. The exam is $10, but who knows what these schools will charge or if they're even reputable. 3. Not be within 5 miles of most airports, or 1-3 miles from most helipads. (Didn't we convert to metric before I was born?). At least they've made a helpful tool with that https://nrc.canada.ca/en/drone-tool/ https://nrc.canada.ca/en/drone-tool/. The tool also helpfully shows that oh right, most lakes are used for sea-planes to take off and land so avoid those too. 4. Never fly within 100 ft (30m) horizontally of any 'bystander', ie: they aren't with me flying the drone. What this all boils down to is that there's no reason to own a drone anymore unless you own a very large property far from any populated areas. There is no place less than a 20-30 minute drive away from my home that I can even legally fly it. Even then, any park or place I might legally go to without trespassing will have too many people to be more than 30m from anyone else. Even the less-populated parks and recreation areas- how do I even tell if there's someone 29m away from me through a forest or behind something? All the while: for what benefit? Who has been seriously injured in Canada by drone accidents?

losteric 7y ago
1/2: ensure drone operators are familiar with the other rules. imo licensing should be required to purchase a drone with much stronger punishments against unlicensed operators, otherwise idiot operators will result in further regulations on use. 3. obviously necessary 4. Drones are a public nuisance. The sound, having a dot just floating in view, zipping around - it's annoying and even scary to bystanders. I own and fly several drones, but I was relieved when America started banning drones from wilderness areas, national parks, and many state/city parks. The serenity of those parks is far more valuable than private drone photography / selfies.
- derefr 7y ago
  > 3. obviously necessary One could argue that drones should be allowed to get right up next to helipads, lat/lon-wise, as long as they stay a safe distance away from the helipad altitude-wise. There are helipads on top of buildings. If the helipad is at ~1500ft, and my drone never exceeds 300ft, then it's not endangering the helicopters, even if it's right next to the building with the helipad on it. But instead, because of the way the law is phrased, if there's a helipad on top of a building in downtown, now I'm not able to film anywhere in downtown. (This same argument could apply to airfields, but airfields "above" neighbouring geography are pretty rare. I guess you could be filming against the cliff adjoining Lukla Airport in Nepal?)
  - nitrogen 7y ago
    What are you filming in a crowded downtown with 150 story helipad-topped highrises that isn't the inside of private buildings?
    - gpm 7y ago
      Things happening in the street, such as festivals/parades/protests.
      - sverhagen 7y ago
        It will be hard not to fly over people, doing that... I don't think all helipads have so much restrictions around them. We are a few blocks away from one, and we fly drones all the time. Legally. It must be a matter of how the specific piece of airspace got regulated, who did it, etc. I also see plenty of FAA maps that were drawn very thoughtful and detailed, versus others where there's just a big circle around an object.
        icebraining 7y ago
        I don't think FAA regulations apply in Canada.
  - 7y ago
jaclaz 7y ago
>Who has been seriously injured in Canada by drone accidents? With all due respect, that is not a particularly valid point, I mean, the people that just got your 5 dollars (and soon will get another 10) will readily tell you how that never happened because unauthorized drone flying was forbidden before that happened and probably expect an applause or a pat on the shoulder for being so much efficient in preventive measures.
riquito 7y ago
Sounds reasonable. About the 30m rule, they can be covered in less than 3 seconds by a non-toy drone. If I'm not the owner I wouldn't want it any more near (the privacy implications are another interesting matter).
tonyarkles 7y ago
Just a satisfied customer, no affiliation. I did the combined basic/advanced course from pilottraining.ca and learned a ton. A related thing that didn’t occur to me until recently: if you keep your all-up weight under 250g, all of those regulations go out the window and drop back down to “fly responsibly”. I’ve been working on drones professionally for a year now, and am just in the process of putting together a tiny kit for fun. This idea clicked for me when a Transport Canada-certified flight examiner sent me a really cool FPV video that was clearly flying around people. You can do a lot while staying under the weight restriction.
- mabbo 7y ago
  > if you keep your all-up weight under 250g Are there commercially available drones that light? My Mavic Air is tiny, and it's still over 400g. The only way I can imagine making it under 200g and still able to fly is to reduce the battery to something that can only fly for a few minutes.
  - leetcrew 7y ago
    basically just toys below that weight, usually without even basic hover capability.
    - bri3d 7y ago
      There is an entire class of first person flying micro drones called “CineWhoops” which combine first person real-time video and HD recording on the drone and have an AUW far under 250g. They are certainly a different flying and photography style from a DJI style photo rig, and I’d argue a much more fun one.
      - tonyarkles 7y ago
        Coming up right away, both FatShark and DJI have announced digital FPV video gear that, if I recall, transmits 1080p. So long as they keep the weight down on the camera/transmitter, that should open up a lot of new capabilities too.
derefr 7y ago
> Even the less-populated parks and recreation areas- how do I even tell if there's someone 29m away from me through a forest or behind something? You pay to rent the space and put up a barrier. These laws were designed to allow drones used for filming (and ensure the production company has to cover the costs of ensuring safety for said filming.) They give no consideration to hobbyists, or anyone else who isn't making enough of a profit off of the thing they're doing in the air to be worth paying people to clear out of the area. Basically, it's like food licensing. They only care to ensure that people trying to make a profit off of their food-service business aren't doing so at the expense of public safety; they don't care how many "food hobbyists" (e.g. parents who bake brownies for school bake sales) they prevent from engaging in their hobby in the process.
- evancox100 7y ago
  Wait, are you a) also Canadian, and b) saying that you literally cannot bake cookies and then legally give them to friends? I could understand if a nursing/retirement home had its own rules for not sharing food, but this is actually illegal? Edit: OP edited comment with a different scenario.
- sandworm101 7y ago
  Except that the film industry in canada wants to do far more than film over closed sets. They want wide nature shots (this is Canada) and moving vehicle shots on public roads. The real estate industry (far bigger than film/TV) also wants to photograph houses from above. Farmers, also a huge industry, want them to spray crops. Police want to use drones to hunt criminals. Fire departments want them to scan buildings. Rescue groups want to send them over fields to find children. All of this requires flying in areas that are disallowed today. The current regs appease the aviation industry. That will change as other larger and more influential sectors make raise their voices. In my personal experience, the drone rules are impacting aviation more than expected. The problem is that people are actually following the rules. NOTAMs are being issued to notify manned aircraft of drone activity. Large manned aircraft at thousands of feet are being redirected because someone with a 2kg drone is running a test. Example of how complicated this can become for pilots: https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/aviation/drone-safety/notices-government-drone-operations.html https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/aviation/drone-safety/notic...
nitrogen 7y ago
for what benefit? Drones can be a rather severe nuisance and potential safety hazard when mishandled. As an example I was at the beach in San Francisco once, and someone flying an obnoxiously loud FPV drone was repeatedly buzzing everyone's heads, often just feet overhead. It completely ruined the beach for anyone nearby. Even without such dickish behavior, the sound of a million angry wasps and the possibility of unwanted aerial photography is generally not a welcome addition to most of the places people want to go.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  unless you're a closeted bald man, I'm not sure why aerial photography would be worse than the standard smartphone variety.
  - liability 7y ago
    Because they're loud as hell, and because many drones lack mechanical redundancy, and because many drone pilots are incompetent. There is also the matter of using drones to circumvent privacy fences, to see through windows not visible from the street, etc.
    - prawn 7y ago
      I imagine there are other laws/restrictions that handle privacy issues. No one I know with a drone has any interest in what is happening inside someone's windows and anyone with that intent is going to ignore regulations anyway.
  - sannee 7y ago
    Because if the drone pilot loses control and you get hit by a falling drone, you are guaranteed a trip to the hospital [1] [2]? [1] https://robotics.stackexchange.com/a/2577 https://robotics.stackexchange.com/a/2577 [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-34936739 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-34936...
miketery 7y ago
> Not be within 5 miles of most airports, or 1-3 miles from most helipads. (Didn't we convert to metric before I was born?) Aviation uses imperial units (feet for altitude, knots for speed, and nautical miles for distance).
- fhars 7y ago
  And according to this graph, the situation in Canada is even more complex: https://twitter.com/Peeardee/status/1169314278840528896 https://twitter.com/Peeardee/status/1169314278840528896
mtw 7y ago
do these rules apply for RC planes in Canada as well? I'm wondering if all hobbyists have to pass similar exams in order to fly RC planes or helicopters
- SkyPuncher 7y ago
  Typically, things are defined by weight and not lift mechanism. In the USA, you can avoid licensing requirements by joining the AMA or a local flying club.
SkyPuncher 7y ago
Besides the exam, all of these have been requirements for flying RC aircraft for ages. It's part of responsibly operating a remote device. Unfortunately, the influx of consumer drones has set the expectation that you should be able to fly anywhere you want. That simply hasn't been the case for any RC aircraft for a long time.
bmurphy1976 7y ago
The rules in the U.S. aren't that different. I live equidistant between Midway and O'Hare in the Chicago area. O'Hare is one of the busiest airports in the U.S. and I don't have any problem finding places to fly. There are plenty of soccer fields and parks that are rarely used. Go early in the morning if you are particularly paranoid about bystanders. I've found if you keep a respectful distance from people, nobody gives shit that you are flying a drone. If anything they're more likely to come up and ask questions, curious about what you are doing.
- rsj_hn 7y ago
  I think that's an important difference between a city like Chicago and a city like SF. For better or worse, people in Chicago seem more laid back.

by mabbo 7y ago

losteric 7y ago

1/2: ensure drone operators are familiar with the other rules. imo licensing should be required to purchase a drone with much stronger punishments against unlicensed operators, otherwise idiot operators will result in further regulations on use. 3. obviously necessary 4. Drones are a public nuisance. The sound, having a dot just floating in view, zipping around - it's annoying and even scary to bystanders. I own and fly several drones, but I was relieved when America started banning drones from wilderness areas, national parks, and many state/city parks. The serenity of those parks is far more valuable than private drone photography / selfies.

derefr 7y ago
> 3. obviously necessary One could argue that drones should be allowed to get right up next to helipads, lat/lon-wise, as long as they stay a safe distance away from the helipad altitude-wise. There are helipads on top of buildings. If the helipad is at ~1500ft, and my drone never exceeds 300ft, then it's not endangering the helicopters, even if it's right next to the building with the helipad on it. But instead, because of the way the law is phrased, if there's a helipad on top of a building in downtown, now I'm not able to film anywhere in downtown. (This same argument could apply to airfields, but airfields "above" neighbouring geography are pretty rare. I guess you could be filming against the cliff adjoining Lukla Airport in Nepal?)
- nitrogen 7y ago
  What are you filming in a crowded downtown with 150 story helipad-topped highrises that isn't the inside of private buildings?
  - gpm 7y ago
    Things happening in the street, such as festivals/parades/protests.
    - sverhagen 7y ago
      It will be hard not to fly over people, doing that... I don't think all helipads have so much restrictions around them. We are a few blocks away from one, and we fly drones all the time. Legally. It must be a matter of how the specific piece of airspace got regulated, who did it, etc. I also see plenty of FAA maps that were drawn very thoughtful and detailed, versus others where there's just a big circle around an object.
      - icebraining 7y ago
        I don't think FAA regulations apply in Canada.
- 7y ago

jaclaz 7y ago

>Who has been seriously injured in Canada by drone accidents? With all due respect, that is not a particularly valid point, I mean, the people that just got your 5 dollars (and soon will get another 10) will readily tell you how that never happened because unauthorized drone flying was forbidden before that happened and probably expect an applause or a pat on the shoulder for being so much efficient in preventive measures.

riquito 7y ago

Sounds reasonable. About the 30m rule, they can be covered in less than 3 seconds by a non-toy drone. If I'm not the owner I wouldn't want it any more near (the privacy implications are another interesting matter).

tonyarkles 7y ago

Just a satisfied customer, no affiliation. I did the combined basic/advanced course from pilottraining.ca and learned a ton. A related thing that didn’t occur to me until recently: if you keep your all-up weight under 250g, all of those regulations go out the window and drop back down to “fly responsibly”. I’ve been working on drones professionally for a year now, and am just in the process of putting together a tiny kit for fun. This idea clicked for me when a Transport Canada-certified flight examiner sent me a really cool FPV video that was clearly flying around people. You can do a lot while staying under the weight restriction.

mabbo 7y ago
> if you keep your all-up weight under 250g Are there commercially available drones that light? My Mavic Air is tiny, and it's still over 400g. The only way I can imagine making it under 200g and still able to fly is to reduce the battery to something that can only fly for a few minutes.
- leetcrew 7y ago
  basically just toys below that weight, usually without even basic hover capability.
  - bri3d 7y ago
    There is an entire class of first person flying micro drones called “CineWhoops” which combine first person real-time video and HD recording on the drone and have an AUW far under 250g. They are certainly a different flying and photography style from a DJI style photo rig, and I’d argue a much more fun one.
    - tonyarkles 7y ago
      Coming up right away, both FatShark and DJI have announced digital FPV video gear that, if I recall, transmits 1080p. So long as they keep the weight down on the camera/transmitter, that should open up a lot of new capabilities too.

derefr 7y ago

> Even the less-populated parks and recreation areas- how do I even tell if there's someone 29m away from me through a forest or behind something? You pay to rent the space and put up a barrier. These laws were designed to allow drones used for filming (and ensure the production company has to cover the costs of ensuring safety for said filming.) They give no consideration to hobbyists, or anyone else who isn't making enough of a profit off of the thing they're doing in the air to be worth paying people to clear out of the area. Basically, it's like food licensing. They only care to ensure that people trying to make a profit off of their food-service business aren't doing so at the expense of public safety; they don't care how many "food hobbyists" (e.g. parents who bake brownies for school bake sales) they prevent from engaging in their hobby in the process.

evancox100 7y ago
Wait, are you a) also Canadian, and b) saying that you literally cannot bake cookies and then legally give them to friends? I could understand if a nursing/retirement home had its own rules for not sharing food, but this is actually illegal? Edit: OP edited comment with a different scenario.
sandworm101 7y ago
Except that the film industry in canada wants to do far more than film over closed sets. They want wide nature shots (this is Canada) and moving vehicle shots on public roads. The real estate industry (far bigger than film/TV) also wants to photograph houses from above. Farmers, also a huge industry, want them to spray crops. Police want to use drones to hunt criminals. Fire departments want them to scan buildings. Rescue groups want to send them over fields to find children. All of this requires flying in areas that are disallowed today. The current regs appease the aviation industry. That will change as other larger and more influential sectors make raise their voices. In my personal experience, the drone rules are impacting aviation more than expected. The problem is that people are actually following the rules. NOTAMs are being issued to notify manned aircraft of drone activity. Large manned aircraft at thousands of feet are being redirected because someone with a 2kg drone is running a test. Example of how complicated this can become for pilots: https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/aviation/drone-safety/notices-government-drone-operations.html https://www.tc.gc.ca/en/services/aviation/drone-safety/notic...

nitrogen 7y ago

for what benefit? Drones can be a rather severe nuisance and potential safety hazard when mishandled. As an example I was at the beach in San Francisco once, and someone flying an obnoxiously loud FPV drone was repeatedly buzzing everyone's heads, often just feet overhead. It completely ruined the beach for anyone nearby. Even without such dickish behavior, the sound of a million angry wasps and the possibility of unwanted aerial photography is generally not a welcome addition to most of the places people want to go.

leetcrew 7y ago
unless you're a closeted bald man, I'm not sure why aerial photography would be worse than the standard smartphone variety.
- liability 7y ago
  Because they're loud as hell, and because many drones lack mechanical redundancy, and because many drone pilots are incompetent. There is also the matter of using drones to circumvent privacy fences, to see through windows not visible from the street, etc.
  - prawn 7y ago
    I imagine there are other laws/restrictions that handle privacy issues. No one I know with a drone has any interest in what is happening inside someone's windows and anyone with that intent is going to ignore regulations anyway.
- sannee 7y ago
  Because if the drone pilot loses control and you get hit by a falling drone, you are guaranteed a trip to the hospital [1] [2]? [1] https://robotics.stackexchange.com/a/2577 https://robotics.stackexchange.com/a/2577 [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-34936739 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-hereford-worcester-34936...

miketery 7y ago

> Not be within 5 miles of most airports, or 1-3 miles from most helipads. (Didn't we convert to metric before I was born?) Aviation uses imperial units (feet for altitude, knots for speed, and nautical miles for distance).

fhars 7y ago
And according to this graph, the situation in Canada is even more complex: https://twitter.com/Peeardee/status/1169314278840528896 https://twitter.com/Peeardee/status/1169314278840528896

mtw 7y ago

do these rules apply for RC planes in Canada as well? I'm wondering if all hobbyists have to pass similar exams in order to fly RC planes or helicopters

SkyPuncher 7y ago
Typically, things are defined by weight and not lift mechanism. In the USA, you can avoid licensing requirements by joining the AMA or a local flying club.

SkyPuncher 7y ago

Besides the exam, all of these have been requirements for flying RC aircraft for ages. It's part of responsibly operating a remote device. Unfortunately, the influx of consumer drones has set the expectation that you should be able to fly anywhere you want. That simply hasn't been the case for any RC aircraft for a long time.

bmurphy1976 7y ago

The rules in the U.S. aren't that different. I live equidistant between Midway and O'Hare in the Chicago area. O'Hare is one of the busiest airports in the U.S. and I don't have any problem finding places to fly. There are plenty of soccer fields and parks that are rarely used. Go early in the morning if you are particularly paranoid about bystanders. I've found if you keep a respectful distance from people, nobody gives shit that you are flying a drone. If anything they're more likely to come up and ask questions, curious about what you are doing.

rsj_hn 7y ago
I think that's an important difference between a city like Chicago and a city like SF. For better or worse, people in Chicago seem more laid back.