4 ms·

Carpel tunnel and tendonitis? How'd she do that? My career is in applied math and computing, and now I'm heading for an alpha test for my startup, but for hob

Carpel tunnel and tendonitis? How'd she do that? My career is in applied math and computing, and now I'm heading for an alpha test for my startup, but for hobbies I like both classical violin and mathematical physics. For violin, for the muscles part, have two hands, one chin, one left shoulder, and one back. There have long been plenty of pictures of great violinists -- e.g., Heifetz -- that show really clearly what positions of hands, chin, left shoulder, and back should be. The left shoulder position is made easier by the long very popular shoulder rests that attach under the violin a little behind the bridge. I got through some plenty serious music, e.g., about half of the Bach Chaconne with no problems with injuries. I played violin because I like it: I don't have a good singing voice so can use violin, e.g., with some of Bach's music, to scream out to the heavens the passion of the human spirit! In this way, violin is great fun! But it was always totally clear to me that there was no money in classical music for me and very little for 99.99% of everyone else in music. E.g., I did clearly understand that all the people who could have a good career as a classical solo violinist could meet in large SUV -- literally true. E.g., there was a report that each year there are in all the world only about 50 solo violin performances with major orchestras. But also gotta mention, there are not many people, only a small fraction even in that SUV, who can play the music as well as Heifetz. Each year some young violinists come on the scene with a big entrance, but too soon it's clear that for world class performances of the major pieces they need more time in master classes, a practice room, and most of all thinking about the artistic expression of the pieces. E.g., the last few bars of the central D-major section of the Bach Chaconne are the climax of the piece, and that needs to be brought out clearly to the audience but is rarely done effectively. Net, it appears that there is some room at the top for solo violinists. Also a violin doesn't have to be wildly expensive: Mine cost $600 and is plenty good enough. My understanding is that the violin makers have made amazing progress in recent decades and routinely make violins as good as the best ever.

ta0987 7y ago
How'd she do that? How did she manage to not know the things you know? Probably by not being you.
- graycat 7y ago
  I was not clear enough? Good grief: As I made clear, all she had to do was just look at some pictures, e.g., some of the many ones on record jackets or concert announcements. We can see one quite good example of such an old record jacket cover at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXJLf5jI-54 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXJLf5jI-54 That picture alone shows left hand, right hand, chin, shoulder, and back posture all quite well, and there are more such old record jacket pictures, e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iG9tUJ7Am4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iG9tUJ7Am4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWy8iibtd98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWy8iibtd98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc Of course now there are some just fantastically good videos on JUST how to hold a violin, e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-W3lfcVvY&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-W3lfcVvY&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dBg__wsuo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dBg__wsuo Also good help has long been in a library, e.g., Ivan Galamian, Principles of Violin Playing & Teaching, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, 1962. Galamian was long at Juilliard. Of course, looking carefully at the pictures, will see some differences in the right hand: Heifetz has his little finger barely on the bow and Fischer and Hahn have the little finger more on the bow. The Heifetz approach is sometimes called Russian and the Fischer and Hahn, German. Otherwise all the pictures are very close in how to hold a violin. The record jacket covers did well for me! So, how the heck did she miss all such pictures?
- graycat 7y ago
  I didn't know those things because I was me. Instead I just learned. The learning was easy, dirt simple -- just look at some long readily available good pictures. That's what I did; it worked very well for me. Once at the farm at Christmas, I was upstairs practicing on violin. Soon a niece about 9 came up to see. I put the violin under her left chin, put the bow in her right hand, and had her play a note, A on the open A string. She held the violin just fine -- one instant lesson. The next day her father asked me "How much is a violin going to cost me?"!!! So, I did a little violin teaching -- not very difficult.
  - 7y ago
analog31 7y ago
>>> Carpel tunnel and tendonitis? How'd she do that? Same way they all do it: Practicing for hours a day with barely discernible deviations in technique and physical approach. Feeling pushed to play through the pain. Facing deadlines such as competitions and auditions. Knowing that taking a break in order to heal means dropping out of the scene and falling to the bottom of call lists. Perhaps subtle genetic variations that make some people more susceptible than others. What does a hobbyist know about these things? I certainly don't. I'm also a techie by day and a musician at night -- a jazz double bassist. I will never be as good as the top bassists in my locale -- they all have music degrees and have practiced more than I ever will. But I can choose my battles, and that includes putting my health first. My hands are in great shape. But the injuries are real. Rumors are true: The bass is big. You can see technique problems from a mile away. It saddens me to see this, but I watch promising young professional bassists coming up through the ranks, and a lot of them show evidence that they are playing through injuries that will eventually limit their careers. Some time on YouTube will reveal this, though I don't want to call anybody out. Physical occupations are always potentially dangerous. People get hurt. I've watched tradesmen work, and it's rare to see workers at my age (55) who aren't hobbling and broken. Like you, I opted out of a music career pretty early. Luckily, I was equally interested in other things such as math. Realistically, I wasn't good enough to progress in music beyond, say, the community orchestra level.
- graycat 7y ago
  > What does a hobbyist know about these things? I certainly don't. I don't know at all well. I made some progress with violin but not on any fixed schedule. I can't recall anything hurting, but if something did then no doubt I just slowed down. But I started violin late, in my 20s and had three problems -- no talent, too old, and too little practice. Still I made some progress, e.g., the Chaconne which is no joke. I do have a little insight: For a while I was a math grad student at Indiana University with, of course, its excellent music school next door including violin from former Cleveland concert master Gingold. So, I met a lot of violin music students, e.g., guys who could sightread, e.g., the Vieuxtemps 5th violin concerto. Those students showed no pains, and all but one of them held their violin just fine. Generally if something hurts, then something is wrong, and don't do that. And for the pressure of a competition, wait a while, take longer until are really ready. If are desperate for results for a scholarship or some such, then accept that music is mostly for pleasure, keep music as a hobby, and do something else for money. Sorry 'bout that. Or, maybe play country music on violin. I suspect those guys DO get paid, and from the audience it seems that maybe they have yet to learn about third position, much less fifth position, and much, much less being able to play all the scales in all the major and minor keys. So, play some Country or Bluegrass.
robocat 7y ago
> Carpel tunnel and tendonitis? How'd she do that? She wrote it in the article: she was trained by to hold in a particular way. You come across as very intelligent, but I think they telling others that you know how to do things better is not very smart.
- graycat 7y ago
  "Come across" is very sloppy reading and thinking. Read here again, once again, over again, yet again, one more time: Smart has nothing to do with it. Instead, to know how to hold a violin, just look at some good pictures. They worked for me. Then Galamian's book helped some more. Don't have to be very smart to look at some pictures. All the old 33 RPM record stores had lots of record jackets with great pictures. One extra point: Really SHOULD be able to hold the violin in its correct position using just the chin and left shoulder without either hand. So, this way the left hand is free to make music instead of holding the violin. Frequently at concerts can see the performer, say, between pieces, holding their violin without their hands. One more point: The left thumb should be relaxed and slightly, naturally, comfortably curved and NOT stressfully bent backwards. Again, yet again, once again, over again, one more time, we HOLD the violin with our chin and left shoulder and NOT with our left hand. The left hand is relaxed and making music, NOT stressfully holding the violing. For GREAT details, just look at the video clips of Fischer and Hahn. These are all standard, common, first day violin lessons and can nearly all be seen easily in long readily available pictures with more from good books, e.g., Galamian. Every beginning violin student has to struggle for a while learning how to hold the instrument. So, the task is well understood. The solution? Easy, just look at some readily available pictures as I illustrated with several examples from old record jackets. For the audience here, if anyone wants to start violin or has a child that does, then a good way to learn how to hold the instrument is just to look at some pictures, including the ones I gave here. And now, much better still, look at the two videos I gave, Fischer and Hahn. Any good violinist can confirm that those two are doing JUST FINE. So what I'm saying here, just dirt simple, look at some pictures, could have helped the author of the OP and anyone starting violin now. Don't look at some good pictures of good violinists, e.g., Heifetz, and maybe have the pains and horrible problems in the OP. Look at the pictures and avoid all that. Simple. And somehow you object to my little contribution here?????? Bizarre.

ta0987 7y ago

How'd she do that? How did she manage to not know the things you know? Probably by not being you.

graycat 7y ago
I was not clear enough? Good grief: As I made clear, all she had to do was just look at some pictures, e.g., some of the many ones on record jackets or concert announcements. We can see one quite good example of such an old record jacket cover at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXJLf5jI-54 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXJLf5jI-54 That picture alone shows left hand, right hand, chin, shoulder, and back posture all quite well, and there are more such old record jacket pictures, e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iG9tUJ7Am4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iG9tUJ7Am4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWy8iibtd98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWy8iibtd98 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fCuMFGVwhc Of course now there are some just fantastically good videos on JUST how to hold a violin, e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-W3lfcVvY&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kS-W3lfcVvY&feature=youtu.be https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dBg__wsuo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1dBg__wsuo Also good help has long been in a library, e.g., Ivan Galamian, Principles of Violin Playing & Teaching, Prentice-Hall, Englewood Cliffs, 1962. Galamian was long at Juilliard. Of course, looking carefully at the pictures, will see some differences in the right hand: Heifetz has his little finger barely on the bow and Fischer and Hahn have the little finger more on the bow. The Heifetz approach is sometimes called Russian and the Fischer and Hahn, German. Otherwise all the pictures are very close in how to hold a violin. The record jacket covers did well for me! So, how the heck did she miss all such pictures?
graycat 7y ago
I didn't know those things because I was me. Instead I just learned. The learning was easy, dirt simple -- just look at some long readily available good pictures. That's what I did; it worked very well for me. Once at the farm at Christmas, I was upstairs practicing on violin. Soon a niece about 9 came up to see. I put the violin under her left chin, put the bow in her right hand, and had her play a note, A on the open A string. She held the violin just fine -- one instant lesson. The next day her father asked me "How much is a violin going to cost me?"!!! So, I did a little violin teaching -- not very difficult.
- 7y ago

analog31 7y ago

>>> Carpel tunnel and tendonitis? How'd she do that? Same way they all do it: Practicing for hours a day with barely discernible deviations in technique and physical approach. Feeling pushed to play through the pain. Facing deadlines such as competitions and auditions. Knowing that taking a break in order to heal means dropping out of the scene and falling to the bottom of call lists. Perhaps subtle genetic variations that make some people more susceptible than others. What does a hobbyist know about these things? I certainly don't. I'm also a techie by day and a musician at night -- a jazz double bassist. I will never be as good as the top bassists in my locale -- they all have music degrees and have practiced more than I ever will. But I can choose my battles, and that includes putting my health first. My hands are in great shape. But the injuries are real. Rumors are true: The bass is big. You can see technique problems from a mile away. It saddens me to see this, but I watch promising young professional bassists coming up through the ranks, and a lot of them show evidence that they are playing through injuries that will eventually limit their careers. Some time on YouTube will reveal this, though I don't want to call anybody out. Physical occupations are always potentially dangerous. People get hurt. I've watched tradesmen work, and it's rare to see workers at my age (55) who aren't hobbling and broken. Like you, I opted out of a music career pretty early. Luckily, I was equally interested in other things such as math. Realistically, I wasn't good enough to progress in music beyond, say, the community orchestra level.

graycat 7y ago
> What does a hobbyist know about these things? I certainly don't. I don't know at all well. I made some progress with violin but not on any fixed schedule. I can't recall anything hurting, but if something did then no doubt I just slowed down. But I started violin late, in my 20s and had three problems -- no talent, too old, and too little practice. Still I made some progress, e.g., the Chaconne which is no joke. I do have a little insight: For a while I was a math grad student at Indiana University with, of course, its excellent music school next door including violin from former Cleveland concert master Gingold. So, I met a lot of violin music students, e.g., guys who could sightread, e.g., the Vieuxtemps 5th violin concerto. Those students showed no pains, and all but one of them held their violin just fine. Generally if something hurts, then something is wrong, and don't do that. And for the pressure of a competition, wait a while, take longer until are really ready. If are desperate for results for a scholarship or some such, then accept that music is mostly for pleasure, keep music as a hobby, and do something else for money. Sorry 'bout that. Or, maybe play country music on violin. I suspect those guys DO get paid, and from the audience it seems that maybe they have yet to learn about third position, much less fifth position, and much, much less being able to play all the scales in all the major and minor keys. So, play some Country or Bluegrass.

robocat 7y ago

> Carpel tunnel and tendonitis? How'd she do that? She wrote it in the article: she was trained by to hold in a particular way. You come across as very intelligent, but I think they telling others that you know how to do things better is not very smart.

graycat 7y ago
"Come across" is very sloppy reading and thinking. Read here again, once again, over again, yet again, one more time: Smart has nothing to do with it. Instead, to know how to hold a violin, just look at some good pictures. They worked for me. Then Galamian's book helped some more. Don't have to be very smart to look at some pictures. All the old 33 RPM record stores had lots of record jackets with great pictures. One extra point: Really SHOULD be able to hold the violin in its correct position using just the chin and left shoulder without either hand. So, this way the left hand is free to make music instead of holding the violin. Frequently at concerts can see the performer, say, between pieces, holding their violin without their hands. One more point: The left thumb should be relaxed and slightly, naturally, comfortably curved and NOT stressfully bent backwards. Again, yet again, once again, over again, one more time, we HOLD the violin with our chin and left shoulder and NOT with our left hand. The left hand is relaxed and making music, NOT stressfully holding the violing. For GREAT details, just look at the video clips of Fischer and Hahn. These are all standard, common, first day violin lessons and can nearly all be seen easily in long readily available pictures with more from good books, e.g., Galamian. Every beginning violin student has to struggle for a while learning how to hold the instrument. So, the task is well understood. The solution? Easy, just look at some readily available pictures as I illustrated with several examples from old record jackets. For the audience here, if anyone wants to start violin or has a child that does, then a good way to learn how to hold the instrument is just to look at some pictures, including the ones I gave here. And now, much better still, look at the two videos I gave, Fischer and Hahn. Any good violinist can confirm that those two are doing JUST FINE. So what I'm saying here, just dirt simple, look at some pictures, could have helped the author of the OP and anyone starting violin now. Don't look at some good pictures of good violinists, e.g., Heifetz, and maybe have the pains and horrible problems in the OP. Look at the pictures and avoid all that. Simple. And somehow you object to my little contribution here?????? Bizarre.