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Thing is, you'd have to oppress in this situation. If you're just sat tight then the masses can go elsewhere and build their own utopia. Im not sure that there

Thing is, you'd have to oppress in this situation. If you're just sat tight then the masses can go elsewhere and build their own utopia. Im not sure that there's the stomach for active oppression throughout the whole of the ruling class. Additionally, comms being what they are, cheap mesh networks can win through attrition so the masses can simply go off channel and avoid monitoring. From there the only way to find out what they're doing is through trust ie. Be (or pretend but then the entry bar gets raised) a good actor at which point the oppression stops.

malux85 7y ago
The masses can go somewhere and build their own utopia?! This actually made me laugh out loud. The masses are mostly average and below. They are the people living paycheck to paycheck, the working among them are on the verge of employment induced burnout, and almost all of them have no savings, and little / no access to capital. They are myopic and/or willfully blind. They have little to no situational awareness and don't solve problems until it's too late. They are incapable, vision-less, disorganized and most importantly: resourceless - how are they going to just go and build a utopia? The top 10% will get elysium and the 90% will get nothing. > Im not sure that there's the stomach for active oppression throughout the whole of the ruling class. Not personally but oppression is automated, thats the entire point. The rich live in their gated community bubble, and automation and security takes care of things at the boarders. > Additionally, comms being what they are, cheap mesh networks can win through attrition so the masses can simply go off channel and avoid monitoring. From there the only way to find out what they're doing is through trust ie. Be (or pretend but then the entry bar gets raised) a good actor at which point the oppression stops Mesh networks can be DoS'd easily if they become a problem. I know, I built and sold my first startup doing this.
- alexisread 7y ago
  Good points (and I'm glad I can make you laugh!) but i'll try to clarify: > The masses can go somewhere and build their own utopia?! This actually made me laugh out loud. On a macro scale this is what colonization is, specifically that trait of going off to find some land to make your fortune. Historically this has worked well, excluding the bit where indigenous populations were wiped out. Realistically here we're talking about getting the leftovers resource-wise. I'd be willing to bet that despite automation, not all the ruling class could rest on their conscience ie. the Elon Musks, Bill Gates etc. of this world would be dissenting, and in a position to act as visionaries (in fact they would likely be polarized by others' actions) to help build out alternative infrastructure. This solves the directionless+resourceless issues you've raised. Mesh networks can be DoS'd but that'd require active oppression to shut down the mesh, and if that happens, we get two possibilities, either you get help from aforementioned visionaries (wired network build-out) or you run a separate mesh, and keep doing so every time it's brought down. Cost is affordable with say esp32s and lipo (the attrition aspect I mentioned), bandwidth is a different matter but then we're talking about jamming rather than DoS.

malux85 7y ago

The masses can go somewhere and build their own utopia?! This actually made me laugh out loud. The masses are mostly average and below. They are the people living paycheck to paycheck, the working among them are on the verge of employment induced burnout, and almost all of them have no savings, and little / no access to capital. They are myopic and/or willfully blind. They have little to no situational awareness and don't solve problems until it's too late. They are incapable, vision-less, disorganized and most importantly: resourceless - how are they going to just go and build a utopia? The top 10% will get elysium and the 90% will get nothing. > Im not sure that there's the stomach for active oppression throughout the whole of the ruling class. Not personally but oppression is automated, thats the entire point. The rich live in their gated community bubble, and automation and security takes care of things at the boarders. > Additionally, comms being what they are, cheap mesh networks can win through attrition so the masses can simply go off channel and avoid monitoring. From there the only way to find out what they're doing is through trust ie. Be (or pretend but then the entry bar gets raised) a good actor at which point the oppression stops Mesh networks can be DoS'd easily if they become a problem. I know, I built and sold my first startup doing this.

alexisread 7y ago
Good points (and I'm glad I can make you laugh!) but i'll try to clarify: > The masses can go somewhere and build their own utopia?! This actually made me laugh out loud. On a macro scale this is what colonization is, specifically that trait of going off to find some land to make your fortune. Historically this has worked well, excluding the bit where indigenous populations were wiped out. Realistically here we're talking about getting the leftovers resource-wise. I'd be willing to bet that despite automation, not all the ruling class could rest on their conscience ie. the Elon Musks, Bill Gates etc. of this world would be dissenting, and in a position to act as visionaries (in fact they would likely be polarized by others' actions) to help build out alternative infrastructure. This solves the directionless+resourceless issues you've raised. Mesh networks can be DoS'd but that'd require active oppression to shut down the mesh, and if that happens, we get two possibilities, either you get help from aforementioned visionaries (wired network build-out) or you run a separate mesh, and keep doing so every time it's brought down. Cost is affordable with say esp32s and lipo (the attrition aspect I mentioned), bandwidth is a different matter but then we're talking about jamming rather than DoS.