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There is extensive evidence beyond even just writings including death records, genetic records (1 in 200 men, around the world, are direct descendants of Genghi

by rjf72 7y ago

There is extensive evidence beyond even just writings including death records, genetic records (1 in 200 men, around the world, are direct descendants of Genghis Khan), and much more. And when you reach such a tremendous scale there is just an unimaginable amount of writing from people of all different views and values. The argument you're making is sufficient to discount and any all records of history. And indeed not even history of the long past, but also the present. Do you know exactly what happened in Syria from falsifiable objective accounts, or are you relying on information spread by a small number of sources each with their own agenda? I think your argument definitely deserves consideration when you get into the minutia of history, but when you're talking about the big scale (this empire ruled this land at this time) I think your argument is more about a disbelief in everything, historical nihilism, rather than justifiable incredulity.

glofish 7y ago
My point was that the times you refer to were so underdocumented and the reporting is so unreliable that using them in an argument amounts for confirmation bias. You wrote: "The Mongols created a single unified empire than stretched from western europe to eastern asia [...] one that was also extremely tolerant of foreign cultures" Was there a gigantic Mongol empire? Sure. Was it unified and extremely tolerant of foreign cultures in the sense that we use these words today? Not bloody likely. What kind of tolerance leads to what you also note: "(1 in 200 men, around the world, are direct descendants of Genghis Khan)"
- rjf72 7y ago
  You are using your intuition of the past instead of any actual knowledge of such to formulate views and values. Yes, the Mongol empire was extremely tolerant of cultures by any interpretation of the word. For instance at the time religion was a huge deal and while himself a shamanist, he exempted all religious leaders (of any sort) from taxation and public service requirements. He also built a wide array of houses of worship for most of every major religion. With religions that proved troublesome to integrate, such as Islam, the Mongol leaders would themselves genuinely convert to the religion to try to help maintain better ties and relations. In places were there was religious persecution, Genghis Khan would happily depose leaders (including other Mongols) to ensure freedom under his empire. Outside of religion they also even allowed local leaders to remain and organize their subjects as they saw fit (subject to things such as guarantees of religious freedom) including even maintaining their own militaries. The only requirement was a 10% tax to the Mongol empire. They way he spread his genes was pretty much as the way we do today. The only difference is that he had hundreds of wives. Take somebody with several times the wealth of Jeff Bezos today and make him the absolute ruler of the USA, EU, and China. And now he imagine he asks, genuinely asking - not an offer one cannot refuse, practically any woman on this Earth to be one of his wives. Very few would say 'nah, I'm holding out for somebody better.'

by rjf72 7y ago

glofish 7y ago

My point was that the times you refer to were so underdocumented and the reporting is so unreliable that using them in an argument amounts for confirmation bias. You wrote: "The Mongols created a single unified empire than stretched from western europe to eastern asia [...] one that was also extremely tolerant of foreign cultures" Was there a gigantic Mongol empire? Sure. Was it unified and extremely tolerant of foreign cultures in the sense that we use these words today? Not bloody likely. What kind of tolerance leads to what you also note: "(1 in 200 men, around the world, are direct descendants of Genghis Khan)"

rjf72 7y ago
You are using your intuition of the past instead of any actual knowledge of such to formulate views and values. Yes, the Mongol empire was extremely tolerant of cultures by any interpretation of the word. For instance at the time religion was a huge deal and while himself a shamanist, he exempted all religious leaders (of any sort) from taxation and public service requirements. He also built a wide array of houses of worship for most of every major religion. With religions that proved troublesome to integrate, such as Islam, the Mongol leaders would themselves genuinely convert to the religion to try to help maintain better ties and relations. In places were there was religious persecution, Genghis Khan would happily depose leaders (including other Mongols) to ensure freedom under his empire. Outside of religion they also even allowed local leaders to remain and organize their subjects as they saw fit (subject to things such as guarantees of religious freedom) including even maintaining their own militaries. The only requirement was a 10% tax to the Mongol empire. They way he spread his genes was pretty much as the way we do today. The only difference is that he had hundreds of wives. Take somebody with several times the wealth of Jeff Bezos today and make him the absolute ruler of the USA, EU, and China. And now he imagine he asks, genuinely asking - not an offer one cannot refuse, practically any woman on this Earth to be one of his wives. Very few would say 'nah, I'm holding out for somebody better.'