11 ms·
Tesla Model 3 accounted for over 12% of Norwegian auto market in Jan-July
- drmacak 7y agoI still feel that only EV is not the answer. You have also get the electricity somewhere so some investment in modern nucler power plants and fusion would be even better then just blindly pushing EVs.
- braythwayt 7y agoChickens and eggs? Perhaps in an ideal world, pushing demand for electrical power is how we would get to investing in clean electricity generation.
- thinkcontext 7y agoTo get to zero carbon emissions we'll need both zero carbon transportation and zero carbon electricity. $100B's are being invested in zero carbon electricity, so your suggestion that EVs are taking away from that are mistaken. As for nuclear, the US and Europe have been unable to build plants that do not go 3x+ over budget and time.
- belltaco 7y agoThe electricity produced in Norway is 95% hydroelectric, so it makes all the sense to push EVs there.
- kevin42 7y agoEven if you get the electricity from burning fossil fuels it is a win because electric cars are a LOT more efficient, and it's more efficient to generate electricity from a single, large generator than by shipping fuel to gas stations and powering many small ICE engines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gasoline_equivalent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_per_gallon_gasoline_equi... Plus, as a Model 3 owner, it's really great car.
- anherome21003 7y agoEveryone knows that Norwegians are insane so this trend will not last and most importantly, will not generalize to other markets
- obtino 7y agoWith the price of fuel in Norway, it's not surprising to see people turning towards EV.
- markdown 7y agoSurprising. Most oil-producing countries have dirt-cheap domestic fuel prices.
- FartyMcFarter 7y agoNorway is more forward thinking than most countries. They know that oil is not going to make their country rich forever.
- kwhitefoot 7y agoBut domestic fuel is not cheap here (Norway). Petrol is nearly USD 2/litre, close to USD 8 per US gallon. Electricity is slightly cheaper than some other European countries but that is changing as more and more HVDC interconnects are built and the prices are affected by the market.
- kayoone 7y agoIt's mostly taxes, EV cars have no extra tax which makes them cheaper than petrol cars which often have 100% tax added to their price, which is not really the case in most other countries.
- sushikokk 7y agoTrue, also there is no VAT (which is 25%) on EV cars, and it used to be free to drive on toll roads (this year we have to pay, but much less than the petrol cars). Also, we can drive in the bus/taxi lanes.
- joering2 7y agoOne can only imagine this will change once EVs will start making financial dent. In many European countries there is ridiciolous rule to tax your new car based on the size of ICE. Its for example 2.5% for less than 2000ccm, and can be 18% or more if your engine is bgger than 1999ccm. This for decades was the main reason why all the 1.2, 1.4, 1.6 and 1.8 litre cars were so popular. This and highly tax gas can make for good argument for EVs. However one has to be naive not to think eventually with enough share market both EV cars and charging your car battery will be taxed thru the roof similar to how petrol is taxed. The value of EVs will get regulated downwards then of course. We also have so much oil left in Earth it will be sufficient to power cars for another 30 years.
- Pete-Codes 7y agoI was speaking to a Norwegian friend last night and she confirmed it. There are so many incentives like paying less/no vehicle tax and yeah, they are 100% hydroelectric so they are perfect place. Might have to move there!
- burntoutfire 7y agoThe Teslas are not more affordable there than in the US, they're just less of a bad option - petrol cars are taxed so heavily in the Nordics that it makes an electric a good value for money. You're still better off in the US though, where electric costs the same, but you have an option of reasonably priced petrol cars.
- mikeash 7y agoUnfortunately, you don’t have the option of not breathing in the exhaust of everyone else’s petrol cars.
- Synaesthesia 7y agoWell that’s good that they’re racing petrol cars and I applaud them for doing it. They’re wealthy enough to be able to afford it. It’s what’s necessary to move away from carbon.
- burntoutfire 7y agoIt makes cars less affordable for everybody. Not everyone lives in an area with good (or any) public transport. This is effectively a very heavy tax to "save the planet", which won't have much of an effect (Norway is too small to have any impact on global CO2 emissions), except for Norwegians having to work more in order to pay off this tax.
- close04 7y ago> It’s what’s necessary to move away from carbon. You hear that a lot and yet the second someone poses the hypothetical question of whether everything should be taxed according to its actual “carbon lifecycle”# (and perhaps even beyond carbon) you usually get a “weelll... buuuuttt...”. #That [whatever] that came on the most polluting cargo ship humans could build? Add $xxx to the price tag.
- botto 7y agoI do wonder how the electrical grid in Norway is going to hold up to the massive increase in demand that EV charging will cause.
- Traster 7y agoNorway is in a great position, they're world leaders in hydro and their geography makes that a great source of energy. In 2015 Norway's Hydro-electric generation accounted for 95.8% of it's electricity generation. Norway accounts for half of Europe's entire hydro reservoir capacity. Meanwhile if demand rises they can also import electricity via the North Sea wind power hub, or from Sweden. That's one of the great things about electric cars in Norway - you're actually going to get electricity from renewable sources.
- arcticfox 7y agoWhat is the ecological impact of hydro there? In the US PNW we seem to be taking out hydro due to fish rather than putting in new dams, although I haven't followed it closely
- tyfon 7y agoBuilding damns have a huge impact and there have been many fights over them as in Alta [1]. They also have a large CO2 cost [2] when being built as it requires massive amounts of concrete. However they are now built and there is still plenty of capacity so there have been no new major ones built for a long time. There are some smaller privately owned ones being built but not on a big scale. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alta_Hydroelectric_Power_Station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alta_Hydroelectric_Power_Stati... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_concrete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_impact_of_concre...
- atomwaffel 7y ago> That's one of the great things about electric cars in Norway - you're actually going to get electricity from renewable sources. This is true in a way, but only part of the picture. While virtually all the electricity that is produced in Norway does come from renewable sources, Norwegian energy producers sell a lot of their “guarantees of origin”[1] to energy companies in other European countries, who are then in turn allowed to market their energy as renewable. You can think of these as a kind of “virtual export”: Norway sells its energy to the rest of the continent and receives the “European Attribute Mix” in return. Since it would be pointless and inefficient to physically transfer this energy, virtual certificates are traded instead. Because of this, the Norwegian Water Resources and Energy Directorate declares the energy consumed in Norway as being 58% fossil, 33% nuclear, and only 9% renewable[2], but Norwegian politicians and energy companies tend to forget this and prefer to emphasise the point that 98% of all energy produced in the country is renewable. Both claims are true, but somewhere someone is getting screwed over. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarantee_of_origin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guarantee_of_origin [2] https://www.nve.no/energiforsyning/varedeklarasjon/nasjonal-varedeklarasjon-2018/ https://www.nve.no/energiforsyning/varedeklarasjon/nasjonal-... (in Norwegian)
- Traster 7y agoIt's depressing looking at the other EVs on that list. Where's my electric BMW 3 series? Over the last decade people have been quite rightly pointing out that Tesla are in trouble because sticking some batteries and electric engines into a car isn't actually crazy difficult and all Tesla's production problems will kill it in competition with real car manufacturers. Yet somehow that just hasn't happened at all. The people who talked about the inability of large incumbents to react were dead right. I'm still bearish on Tesla - I think they've pumped their share price with false claims about self-driving, but they have really dominated electric vehicles.
- kayoone 7y agoThat is true, albeit it's slowly changing. I recently drove the VW eGolf and it was a really nice experience. I also drove the Model 3 which has better range and is faster, but also more expensive. I prefer the interior quality of the Golf though. There are also alternatives from the Japanese companies. I think the reason is rather the immense popularity and hype around Tesla that makes it the number one choice for most people that have money and want an EV.
- dzhiurgis 7y agoI think Tesla needs even cheaper/smaller model. 3 is pretty big and expensive for majority of Europeans, especially with little incentives.
- findthewords 7y agoDo they, though? Won't that problem fix itself with ever decreasing battery costs and a European manufacturing plant? A 35k € base model 3 would be a tremendous improvement.
- spiderfarmer 7y agoNext year will be a big year for EV where loads of new electric models will be available in the EU. Tesla will probably still dominate, I think they’ll mostly take market share from gasoline models.
- JBiserkov 7y agoSome context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_Norway#Government_goals_and_incentives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in_electric_vehicles_in_N...
- Merrill 7y agoLooks like a quite different car market. The first 3-row SUV is the Mitsubishi Outlander in 6th place. The market looks like mostly compact sedans and compact/subcompact SUVs. There is a lack of pickups and mid/large SUVs. From other sources, it appears that the VW Transporter/Caravelle and the VW Caddy both sell in volumes that would put them in the middle of the list. So there may be a difference in how light vehicles are classified between the US and Norway. https://www.statista.com/statistics/731767/number-of-sold-vans-and-trucks-in-norway-by-model/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/731767/number-of-sold-va...
- varjag 7y agoDifferent than North America maybe. Not different from most of Europe.
- bryanlarsen 7y agoA car sold today is more likely than not to still be on the road in 2030. Meeting our 2030 goals would be a lot easier if the majority of cars sold this year were zero-emissions world-wide.
- thewhitetulip 7y agoI'm waiting for a reliable long range battery vehicle. Most vehicles in Indian market have to replace batteries in 5yrs.
- pi-rat 7y agoDidn’t the Hyundai Kona launch recently in India? I’m super happy with mine here in Norway. Comes with a 8 year battery warranty here. Easily does over 500 km per charge on Norwegian roads.
- thewhitetulip 7y agoIt did. But the issue is the price. It costs equal to an entry level Mercedes or Audi
- marvin 7y agoFor Norwegians currently looking for an electric car, it's a no-brainer. It's slightly more expensive than the Nissan Leaf 2 that has similar range, but you also get the option of a tow hitch, and the driving experience is in a different league. Plus access to supercharger network that actually works and doesn't require fifteen minutes of fiddling every time. My parents just bought one in spite of having initially dismissed it as likely too expensive. Turned out to be perfectly competitive with everything that's comparable in range and features, and a much better user experience overall. We'll see how the service and reliability turns out, that's the only wildcard I can think of.
- mikekchar 7y agoCan you expand on a few of your comments. I have an older Leaf in Japan and I've never seen a Model 3 before, so I'm curious about the difference. - "the driving experience is in a different league". In what way? I was surprised at how much I enjoy driving the leaf (except for very poor turning radius, which I can't quite understand). What's better in the Model 3? - "doesn't require fifteen minutes of fiddling every time". What does that mean? I don't have trouble charging my Leaf. Is that something specific about the supercharger network (which isn't in Japan), or are you referring to something else?
- eganist 7y agoNot the parent comment, but having driven the model S, X, and 3 (and decided against buying for reasons completely unrelated to the cars themselves), I can probably offer the following insight: The center of gravity for a tesla, regardless of model, is absurdly low. The end result of this is that driving one feels like the car's running on rails, even with the tightest turns. Couple that with the use of electric motors with instant torque (providing likely north of 750 hp/torque with the model S), you've got a car which gives you options. You can race it around and drive like a jerk, sure. But even as a civilized driver, the capability to do almost anything with the car is an enabling factor. --- Don't get me wrong; you can get this from a few other electric cars (the Jag i-Pace comes to mind). But that's probably the advantage the Model 3 has over others; it can maintain the driving dynamics/experience against competition a few Toyota Camrys more expensive.
- kmlx 7y ago1. 100% taxes on petrol cars 2. no VAT on electric cars 3. average income of $3500 in Oslo, one of the highest in the EU 4. total population of 5 million, less than Denmark, less than the city of Hong Kong considering these facts i would say it is a bit surprising they didn't sell more than they did. but still great to see those number.
- phaemon 7y agoOn point 3: Norway isn't in the EU. On point 4: what does the population have to do with it? If they had a population of 50 million, would that negate points 1-3 in some way? Another way of describing their population might be, "roughly the same size as the average US state".
- chodeboy 7y agoNot to be cynical about Tesla or the EV market as a whole but I don't get why Norway has become so important as an indicator for the car market while it hasn't mattered for the last 100 years. The number of cars per capita in Norway is below the average in Europe. If you considering the countries GDP their number of cars per capita is even smaller. If anything, Norway due to it's high taxes and high government subsidies as well as abundant amount of green energy, should be highlighted as a "freak" economy rather than an indicator or even role-model for the rest of the world. !!! DISCLAIMER !!! Before HN nukes this post into downvote oblivion please consider that I am neither a Tesla short-seller nor sponsored by the Big-Oil lobby. I am just a bit critical with what I read.
- lifeisstillgood 7y agoIn the UK company car market, Tesla 3 seems be making a smash for similar reasons - a friend currently pays almost 6k in tax on their car - but is changing their fleet to Tesla's - and that 6k cost vanishes for same price to the company - effectively a 6k salary hike. That will make a huge difference if marketed right.
- segmondy 7y agoIt's actually interesting that there's no major American car in that list. Not even Bolt or Volt. :-/ Might not be much of a signal, but might be that the big 3 have really missed the road on EV.
- Proven 7y agoBecause the government completely distorted the market. Normal people would be ashamed of that situation.
- new_realist 7y agoTesla sales in Norway are down quarter over quarter. See http://eu-evs.com http://eu-evs.com.