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> What I'm saying is you don't have to see eigen values as something of different nature than the wave function. They represent very condensed wave function. T

> What I'm saying is you don't have to see eigen values as something of different nature than the wave function. They represent very condensed wave function. They do not represent very condensed wave functions, have you taken even a single course in quantum mechanics? You should have learned about the Double slit experiment in high school at least, how do you explain that using only the schrödiner equation? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

kgwgk 7y ago
Why do you think the result of the double slit experiment cannot be explained using Schroedinger's equation? If there is a problem at the time of the measurement this is not something specific to the double slit, the same problem exists with a single slit and in any detection of any particle ever.
scotty79 7y ago
The wave function are reshaped by the slits. When it interacts with the barrier with two slits it gets reshaped to have for example very low value directly after the barier far away from the slits. And then final reshaping into something extremely sharp occurs at the screen. The final reshaping is so precise that given photon wave function gets condensed precisely to a single atom of a particle of the photographic dye. Anything except for those reshapings is governed by Schrodinger equation. > [Eigenvalues] do not represent very condensed wave functions User kgwgk said: "Note that eigenvalues are wavefunctions just like any other state" Even if mathematically they don't. Same way as limit of a function at some point outside the domain of a fuction is not a value of that function. But if you consider something close to that limit it is still value of that function. Limits are useful for calculations but if the function represents someting real, limits unlike the function don't actually exist. They are one step more removed from reality than the function is. What I'm saying is that it might be useful for developing intuition for quantum mechanics to consider that eigenvalues don't exist. That they are just mathematical constructs that are useful to represent wavefunctions that are close in shape to them. The genral tendency is exactly opposite. To consider wave function to be mathematical construct (becouse complex numbers and no macroscopic analog) and eigenvectors and states they describe as reality (just because we measured something close to their precisely calculated values).
- kgwgk 7y ago
  The interaction with the slits is governed by Schroedinger’s equation because it is not a measurement (if it is a measurement the interference pattern disappears).
  - scotty79 7y ago
    Sort of. Shrodinger equation doesn't so much describe interaction with the slit barrier as it describes propagation through space not occupied by the slit barrier. The only difference between passing through a slit and the measurement at the screen is the size and location of the "hole". Measurement at the screen is just a silt of the size of single atom. If your measurement is just ensuring that photon passed through one slit not the other you no longer have interference pattern at the screen but you still get diffraction pattern. Your measurement didn't collapse a wave to single point because it wasn't precise enough.
    - kgwgk 7y ago
      > Shrodinger equation doesn't so much describe interaction with the slit barrier And what would describe the interaction with the slits according to you?
      - scotty79 7y ago
        If you want to have precise description you would have to look at how interaction with wave functions of electrons bound in atoms of the barrier reshapes wave function of incoming wave reshaping it in a way that some of it bounces off, some of it dissappears to encompass the act of potentially absorbing the photon on the barrier. And part of the wave is left undisturbed to propagate through the slits. Completely infeasible to calculate but I argue valuable to think about. :-)
        kgwgk 7y ago
        You know that is all happening according to Schroedinger’s equation, right?

kgwgk 7y ago

Why do you think the result of the double slit experiment cannot be explained using Schroedinger's equation? If there is a problem at the time of the measurement this is not something specific to the double slit, the same problem exists with a single slit and in any detection of any particle ever.

scotty79 7y ago

The wave function are reshaped by the slits. When it interacts with the barrier with two slits it gets reshaped to have for example very low value directly after the barier far away from the slits. And then final reshaping into something extremely sharp occurs at the screen. The final reshaping is so precise that given photon wave function gets condensed precisely to a single atom of a particle of the photographic dye. Anything except for those reshapings is governed by Schrodinger equation. > [Eigenvalues] do not represent very condensed wave functions User kgwgk said: "Note that eigenvalues are wavefunctions just like any other state" Even if mathematically they don't. Same way as limit of a function at some point outside the domain of a fuction is not a value of that function. But if you consider something close to that limit it is still value of that function. Limits are useful for calculations but if the function represents someting real, limits unlike the function don't actually exist. They are one step more removed from reality than the function is. What I'm saying is that it might be useful for developing intuition for quantum mechanics to consider that eigenvalues don't exist. That they are just mathematical constructs that are useful to represent wavefunctions that are close in shape to them. The genral tendency is exactly opposite. To consider wave function to be mathematical construct (becouse complex numbers and no macroscopic analog) and eigenvectors and states they describe as reality (just because we measured something close to their precisely calculated values).

kgwgk 7y ago
The interaction with the slits is governed by Schroedinger’s equation because it is not a measurement (if it is a measurement the interference pattern disappears).
- scotty79 7y ago
  Sort of. Shrodinger equation doesn't so much describe interaction with the slit barrier as it describes propagation through space not occupied by the slit barrier. The only difference between passing through a slit and the measurement at the screen is the size and location of the "hole". Measurement at the screen is just a silt of the size of single atom. If your measurement is just ensuring that photon passed through one slit not the other you no longer have interference pattern at the screen but you still get diffraction pattern. Your measurement didn't collapse a wave to single point because it wasn't precise enough.
  - kgwgk 7y ago
    > Shrodinger equation doesn't so much describe interaction with the slit barrier And what would describe the interaction with the slits according to you?
    - scotty79 7y ago
      If you want to have precise description you would have to look at how interaction with wave functions of electrons bound in atoms of the barrier reshapes wave function of incoming wave reshaping it in a way that some of it bounces off, some of it dissappears to encompass the act of potentially absorbing the photon on the barrier. And part of the wave is left undisturbed to propagate through the slits. Completely infeasible to calculate but I argue valuable to think about. :-)
      - kgwgk 7y ago
        You know that is all happening according to Schroedinger’s equation, right?