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One thing that this analysis ignores is how the Roman Catholic Church stepped in and filled a lot of the void left by the collapse of the Roman administrative s
by RcouF1uZ4gsC 7y ago
One thing that this analysis ignores is how the Roman Catholic Church stepped in and filled a lot of the void left by the collapse of the Roman administrative state. Although, the various Germanic kingdoms fought each other, by the time the Roman Empire fell, they had all converted to Latin Catholic Christianity. Because, of this the Roman Catholic Church could serve a unifying purpose and hold in check the worst impulses of an individual kingdom.
Now, there is no such authority. Maybe 10 years ago, we could have thought that multilateral institutions like the UN, EU, IMF, World Bank, NATO, etc could step up, now, if anything, those institutions might have more of a credibility gap than the US.
The collapse of the American "Empire" would be very painful for everyone, not least Western Europe.
- simonh 7y ago>the Roman Catholic Church could serve a unifying purpose and hold in check the worst impulses of an individual kingdom. When they weren’t actively inciting and promoting those worst impulses in the service of their own ends, that is.
- nordsieck 7y ago> Maybe 10 years ago, we could have thought that multilateral institutions like the UN, EU, IMF, World Bank, NATO, etc could step up, now, if anything, those institutions might have more of a credibility gap than the US. I'm skeptical. Fundamentally, the all of civilization is built on the rule of law, and the rule of law is built on enforcement. The UN is nothing without the mailed gauntlet the US brings to the table. IMF/World Bank depends on international law, they can't enforce it. The EU/NATO has the same problem as the UN. I suppose many of the EU countries have a functional military, but they just can't project power.
- DuskStar 7y ago> The EU/NATO has the same problem as the UN. I suppose many of the EU countries have a functional military, but they just can't project power. Only the UK and France have relevant militaries within the EU Nations as far as I'm concerned. Or at least they're the only ones with nukes - Germany's conventional forces might qualify otherwise. And you need some sort of retaliatory strike capability to really take a seat at the big boys table. (Which they both do, with their SSBNs)
- adrianN 7y agoGermany's army is barely functional. What we need is a small, well trained and equipped, EU army and a disbanding of the national armies. It makes no sense that each EU member has their own army.
- novaRom 7y agoThis is absolutely will be blocked by UK and other right-wing and euro-sceptical parties in Euro Parlament. USA will also oppose it with all possible means. I think it's one of their greatest fears ( Russia, Turkey, USA)
- hyperman1 7y agoAnd this is exactly why a lot of Europe sees Brexit as potentially positive in the long term, even if it is painfull in the short term: The UK is the main blocker to further political unification of the EU.
- rayiner 7y agoMaybe. Views of the EU were more negative in French polling than in the U.K. in 2016. Holding a referendum on Frexit was one of Le Pen’s campaign promises. (She lost, but still got 1/3 of the vote.) Further political unification may or may not make France more pro-EU.
- TMWNN 7y agoMacron admitted in 2018 that the French would probably have voted to leave in a UK-style referendum. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/21/emmanuel-macron-uk-yes-no-brexit-vote-mistake https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/21/emmanuel-macro...
- hyperman1 7y agoI think most people feel something is wrong with the EU. But this is apart of it: Is it an economical union, or a step towards a fully integrates US-like country. For now it tries to be both,and succeeds in neither. But removing the UK shifts the power balance in this story, and that influences the vote.
- bontaq 7y agoI'm skeptical of your idea that the UN is "nothing" without the US military. I think you overestimate what the US contributes. I'm also skeptical that it's beneficial to "project power", which I assume means has military bases in their country and parks a carrier somewhere near them.
- i_am_proteus 7y agoIt might not be anything with the US military. This is a serious question: what has the UN successfully accomplished in the last 20 years?
- sdbryan 7y agoWhat has the Roman Empire ever done for us?
- giardini 7y agoObligatory link: "Monty Python: What have the romans ever done for us?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tvauOJMHo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7tvauOJMHo
- mattmanser 7y agohttps://peacekeeping.un.org/en/our-successes https://peacekeeping.un.org/en/our-successes
- wtdata 7y agoFor one, the major task of implementing a single currency shared by a big number of the world's richest nations.
- darkerside 7y agoMaybe the next fundamental step for humanity is detaching rule of law from physical enforcement at a macro level. This has already happened at the individual level. Most people treat their neighbor with respect, not because they fear arrest or a vengeful God, but because we've internalized that we're all better off when we treat each other better. It's similar to getting off of the gold and silver standard. Money used to mean something because it was backed by a physical good. What we learned is that humans can operate at the macro level based on abstractions instead. Rule of law doesn't have to be backed by physical violence.
- mcv 7y agoThe EU is not interested in projecting military force. They're interested in economy, trade, and human rights. And economically, the EU is doing fairly well, though I suppose it could be more effective in leveraging their economic trade power to improve human/civil rights outside their border.
- HNLurker2 7y agoI could imagine in the future American empire being divided into many states who are at war with themselves suffering same fate as Europe
- booleandilemma 7y agoI can’t. There’s a solidarity among the states that European countries don’t have. We all speak the same language, use the same websites, listen to the same music, and watch the same movies. We’re not just going to start killing each other.
- _iyig 7y agoIt can happen here. Neighbors in the former Yugoslavia socialized together and got along well until the day they didn’t. I suggest the graphic novel “Safe Area Gorazde” for an account of this. Also, it happened here once before.
- englishrookie 7y agoExactly which Germanic kingdoms do you mean? The Frisians did not convert until after 754 AD (when they killed Saint Boniface - Bonifatius - after he managed to upset them, probably doing stuff like cutting down their holy oak). The Frisians were never properly incorporated into the Roman empire to begin with, just like many other northern Germanic kingdoms. As for the EU having a credibility gap, we're doing just fine, thank you very much.