4 ms·

There was a reply to your question that was phrased poorly and thus downvoted, but largely held some truth: Eventually, one gets tired of being called a racist

by shijie 7y ago

There was a reply to your question that was phrased poorly and thus downvoted, but largely held some truth: Eventually, one gets tired of being called a racist bigot when one’s ideas of beneficial government policy are not in line with the progressive way of thinking. I grew up in a very conservative state and I have surmised that this served the basis of why so many people voted for Trump. I did not, and it bewildered me when he won, but I get it now: when all you hear are ad hominem attacks leveled at you, AND you’re economically in a tight spot, then why not pick the angry orange man that fights back, even if he’s a buffoon sometimes; at least he fights back.

TuringNYC 7y ago
Thanks for your (and sibling) responses. This is a new perspective I usually don't given living on the coasts. I'd love to hear what is the general view in these areas on what should be done. I'll admit I have a closed mindset here, thinking that 1. Expanded education would improve opportunities by expanding the jobs one qualifies for 2. Healthcare coverage would allow folks to take risks with businesses, study, etc. I also dont understand how reducing taxes for the uber rich helps...i'm hearing that the economy in these areas is not well and unemployment high, so why are folks adamant to not raise taxes for the rich? And if trickle down...doesn't the present state suggest it hasn't trickled down? I'm very interested to hear, what do folks think will help? I'll admit that whatever happened in 2009-2016 did not help. However, neither did what happened in 2001-2008, nor 2016-now. What could I help to advocate for that would help, without making presumptuous assumptions about needs?
- cheez 7y ago
  In my opinion even your suggestions are steeped in ignorance. Education is not the be all end all. Not everyone wants to be in STEM or be highly educated. Some want to work with their hands. Out of the people currently declared, Andrew Yang understands these people very well. No, they don't need yet another bureaucratic program, just give them a basic amount of money unconditionally and they'll figure out the best use for themselves.
- houseofrep 7y ago
  I think you still don’t get what the previous poster was saying. If you (I don’t mean you personally, but the left generally) constantly call a group of people racist and engage in ridiculous histrionics about how they are the cause of all of the world’s problems, they aren’t going to listen to anything else you have to say. They’ll listen to anybody else who doesn’t say those things, even if that person is an obvious idiot and hypocrite. I don’t know that even a simple majority of people on the left really agree with the full “woke” progressive agenda, but you guys do a terrible job of condemning bad behavior directed at folks in “flyover country.”
  - geoka9 7y ago
    > if you... call a group of people racist... they'll listen to anybody else who doesn't... Even if that person is racist?
    - houseofrep 7y ago
      Yes. Lots of these people do not believe racism exists as a serious problem in America. They think it is fake, in no small part because they’ve been told for years that they benefit from and perpetuate an inherently racist system (i.e., that they themselves are racist.) It doesn’t square with their lived experience, so they write it off as “fake news.” They also discount claims of Trump being racist for the same reason. Concepts of privilege and structural racism require a lot of nuance to discuss. I won’t speculate as to how much nuance is intended in the way these ideas are delivered, but I can tell you as a lifelong resident of “flyover country” (who also has ties to the coasts,) the message is being received bluntly, without nuance, with a lot of skepticism and, frankly, anger. These are people who aren’t doing well and haven’t been for a long time. To them, it beggars belief to be told they benefit from and are orchestrating a massive racist conspiracy. Anyway, that’s my answer to OP’s question about what would resonate with this group of people. Stop calling them racists all the fucking time. It is not helping anyone. ( Unless your goal is to eventually start Civil War II. Then it’s on point.) If the left can demonstrate a little empathy, they might find their superior policy positions gain mindshare in the heartland.
- ThrowawayR2 7y ago
  > Expanded education would improve opportunities by expanding the jobs one qualifies for Wow, tone deaf. When you reach 40-50, look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you really want to drop your career, start retraining in an entirely new field, and try to find a job against younger folk fresh out of school. I sure as hell don't (and I have an elite education!) and I would wager that most college-educated people don't, let alone everyone else. And then there's the people who, you know, didn't actually enjoy education and were relieved when they got out of high school, a.k.a. the vast majority of the population. You think they actually want to go back to school? > What could I help to advocate for that would help, without making presumptuous assumptions about needs? Our unwanted President at least knows what to say, even if he can't/won't accomplish it: "JOBS, JOBS, JOBS" (https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1147150333484916738?lang=en https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/11471503334849167...). People living hand-to-mouth do not give a hoot about anything but ensuring a stable (and hopefully growing) paycheck, so nearly nothing on the progressive platform is of interest to them.
  - UncleMeat 7y ago
    What's the alternative? Yes, education opportunities won't solve things fully. Yes, it is immensely difficult to change careers successfully later in life, especially if you are already financially insecure. But it seems like all the right is offering is a false enemy to hate (immigrants, globalism) and empty sentiment rather than a policy. "Education doesn't solve my problems so I'll choose to hate immigrants" isn't exactly an especially helpful belief system. Trump can't bring the factories back. Heck, he is even hurting farming with tariffs.

by shijie 7y ago

TuringNYC 7y ago

Thanks for your (and sibling) responses. This is a new perspective I usually don't given living on the coasts. I'd love to hear what is the general view in these areas on what should be done. I'll admit I have a closed mindset here, thinking that 1. Expanded education would improve opportunities by expanding the jobs one qualifies for 2. Healthcare coverage would allow folks to take risks with businesses, study, etc. I also dont understand how reducing taxes for the uber rich helps...i'm hearing that the economy in these areas is not well and unemployment high, so why are folks adamant to not raise taxes for the rich? And if trickle down...doesn't the present state suggest it hasn't trickled down? I'm very interested to hear, what do folks think will help? I'll admit that whatever happened in 2009-2016 did not help. However, neither did what happened in 2001-2008, nor 2016-now. What could I help to advocate for that would help, without making presumptuous assumptions about needs?

cheez 7y ago
In my opinion even your suggestions are steeped in ignorance. Education is not the be all end all. Not everyone wants to be in STEM or be highly educated. Some want to work with their hands. Out of the people currently declared, Andrew Yang understands these people very well. No, they don't need yet another bureaucratic program, just give them a basic amount of money unconditionally and they'll figure out the best use for themselves.
houseofrep 7y ago
I think you still don’t get what the previous poster was saying. If you (I don’t mean you personally, but the left generally) constantly call a group of people racist and engage in ridiculous histrionics about how they are the cause of all of the world’s problems, they aren’t going to listen to anything else you have to say. They’ll listen to anybody else who doesn’t say those things, even if that person is an obvious idiot and hypocrite. I don’t know that even a simple majority of people on the left really agree with the full “woke” progressive agenda, but you guys do a terrible job of condemning bad behavior directed at folks in “flyover country.”
- geoka9 7y ago
  > if you... call a group of people racist... they'll listen to anybody else who doesn't... Even if that person is racist?
  - houseofrep 7y ago
    Yes. Lots of these people do not believe racism exists as a serious problem in America. They think it is fake, in no small part because they’ve been told for years that they benefit from and perpetuate an inherently racist system (i.e., that they themselves are racist.) It doesn’t square with their lived experience, so they write it off as “fake news.” They also discount claims of Trump being racist for the same reason. Concepts of privilege and structural racism require a lot of nuance to discuss. I won’t speculate as to how much nuance is intended in the way these ideas are delivered, but I can tell you as a lifelong resident of “flyover country” (who also has ties to the coasts,) the message is being received bluntly, without nuance, with a lot of skepticism and, frankly, anger. These are people who aren’t doing well and haven’t been for a long time. To them, it beggars belief to be told they benefit from and are orchestrating a massive racist conspiracy. Anyway, that’s my answer to OP’s question about what would resonate with this group of people. Stop calling them racists all the fucking time. It is not helping anyone. ( Unless your goal is to eventually start Civil War II. Then it’s on point.) If the left can demonstrate a little empathy, they might find their superior policy positions gain mindshare in the heartland.
ThrowawayR2 7y ago
> Expanded education would improve opportunities by expanding the jobs one qualifies for Wow, tone deaf. When you reach 40-50, look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you really want to drop your career, start retraining in an entirely new field, and try to find a job against younger folk fresh out of school. I sure as hell don't (and I have an elite education!) and I would wager that most college-educated people don't, let alone everyone else. And then there's the people who, you know, didn't actually enjoy education and were relieved when they got out of high school, a.k.a. the vast majority of the population. You think they actually want to go back to school? > What could I help to advocate for that would help, without making presumptuous assumptions about needs? Our unwanted President at least knows what to say, even if he can't/won't accomplish it: "JOBS, JOBS, JOBS" (https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1147150333484916738?lang=en https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/11471503334849167...). People living hand-to-mouth do not give a hoot about anything but ensuring a stable (and hopefully growing) paycheck, so nearly nothing on the progressive platform is of interest to them.
- UncleMeat 7y ago
  What's the alternative? Yes, education opportunities won't solve things fully. Yes, it is immensely difficult to change careers successfully later in life, especially if you are already financially insecure. But it seems like all the right is offering is a false enemy to hate (immigrants, globalism) and empty sentiment rather than a policy. "Education doesn't solve my problems so I'll choose to hate immigrants" isn't exactly an especially helpful belief system. Trump can't bring the factories back. Heck, he is even hurting farming with tariffs.