6 ms·

They are only investigating this company because they don't like the government cracking down on protestors in HK. Tear gas is better than bullets.

senthil_rajasek 7y ago
No tear gas is best.
- meshr 7y ago
  The best is not to use and provoke violence at all.
  - anigbrowl 7y ago
    What should people do if they form a consensus that they are being oppressed and asking politely fails to yield the desired result?
    - meshr 7y ago
      They should grow first as much as possible before considering to fight with much bigger enemy so that the winner would be unknown. To do so they should define a problem as time-space independent one. It is global problem here that we still haven’t developed tools to force countries to comply with their own laws to stop violence. We need worldwide consensus here what everyone should do in this case before he hits the same problem.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
  - wbronitsky 7y ago
    Is your argument that the solution to violence is no violence? I believe that assertion is self evidently useless and harmful to the discussion. We would do a lot better to try and raise the tenor of the conversation by discussing interesting viewpoints, not asserting that the solution to something is to simply stop doing it
    - meshr 7y ago
      My answer to violence is to be smarter. It is global problem here that we still haven’t developed tools to force countries to comply with their own laws to stop violence. We need worldwide consensus here what everyone should do in this case before he hits the same problem.
      - deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]
      - wbronitsky 7y ago
        These blanket statements about “violence” are mostly devoid of meaning. What are we defining as violence in this context such that someone could be “smarter” to avoid it? Is the suggestion that someone getting assaulted should be “smarter” to solve their problem? What about protesters that are being attacked by the police? What about a country that is being invaded? I don’t understand how intelligence can fix “violence” or what “violence” even is in this context. Moreover, asserting that we need “world wide consensus” strikes me as an incredibly naïve point. Is there anything that everyone agrees on? Are we stuck with violence until everyone agrees? Grand statements about getting along don’t seem to chip away at the problem at all. In fact, I would assert that they are fiercely counterproductive; one can say we all need to get along and until then we have no culpability.
        meshr 7y ago
        What I mean is to fight back with your brain but not with your body. Someone getting assaulted should be “smarter” to not fight back physically with much bigger opponent. You should look how Edward Snowden or Julian Assange fight back. “world wide consensus” means to create big enough entity who is ready to act when law is violated anywhere in the world so that its actions can hurt violator. Imagine the world where open-source is replaced by such entity.
  - PavlovsCat 7y ago
    How does one get from these https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d10k4e/dont_let_the_police_get_you_down_sound_on/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d10k4e/dont_let_t... https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cv9y4c/protesters_cheered_by_citizens_after_safely/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cv9y4c/protesters... https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0iqpy/2000_medicial_professionals_singing_do_you_hear/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0iqpy/2000_medic... to these https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cutlyk/who_is_more_violant/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cutlyk/who_is_mor... https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0re3y/police_doing_a_double_take_and_arresting_random/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0re3y/police_doi... https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cxz64b/300_uncut_footage_of_the_hk_police_terrorist/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cxz64b/300_uncut_... https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0yl4g/police_deploying_their_appropriate_force/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0yl4g/police_dep... https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d10ewo/8_seconds_of_several_police_abusing_a_caught/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d10ewo/8_seconds_... https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cp0gb2/hk_police_shooting_pelts_within_1m_range_into/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cp0gb2/hk_police_... https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/c04o32/french_journalist_challenges_brutal_hong_kong/ https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/c04o32/french_journa... ? Now consider that's just the tip of the iceberg, the result of a few minutes of searching and scrolling. I know there's instances of protesters being violent, but it's a.) not possible for 30% of a city to be on the streets at the same time, without even more supporting them, and it's not possible for all these brave, peaceful, beautiful people to be singing songs like they do, for a protest that's just instigated by a bunch of hooligans or Western intelligence agencies, or however the attempts to smear them go. b.) not possible to explain most of the police brutality by any action on behalf of the protesters. Which some police apparently call "cockroaches", instances of that being caught on video, too.
  - newguy1234 7y ago
    Violence is justified when you are under an oppressive government. See american revolution and similar violent uprisings. That's the reality. The whole non-violent activism only works when your government isn't oppressive and can actually be reformed through non-violent movements.
    - meshr 7y ago
      I agree violence is justified when someone violates rules. China did violate ‘Article 5 of the Basic Law’ before 2047. So it is global problem that we still haven’t developed tools to force countries to comply with their own laws to stop violence. Or is USA trade war kind of punishment for China?
  - PavlovsCat 7y ago
    HKPF throwing tear gas at journalists with no protesters even around: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d1b4kg/hong_kong_police_throws_tear_gas_grenade_at/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d1b4kg/hong_kong_...
seamyb88 7y ago
Yeah, leave the labour extorting weapons manufacturer alone, guys!
- remotecool 7y ago
  The workers are paid over minimum wage. Working conditions might suck, but why is this any different than any small company with poor working conditions?
  - danharaj 7y ago
    Workers of the world unite!
    - edoceo 7y ago
      Seize the means of production!
      - seamyb88 7y ago
        The only thing the working classes have to lose are their shackles.
        inflatableDodo 7y ago
        You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.
  - Pfhreak 7y ago
    > why is this any different than any small company with poor working conditions? Because what they manufacture is a weapon that's being exported and used against civilian protesters?
    - mieseratte 7y ago
      Couldn’t the HK police buy it from somewhere else? Or domestically produce?
oro92 7y ago
Journalists investigating current events? Huh. Next you’ll be telling me scientists only investigate results of experiments! Police only investigate results of crimes! What’s next? Washing laundry after it’s dirty? Where will it end!!
- remotecool 7y ago
  You call buzzfeed journalists? Even so, why no interest in this company 5 years ago if it's not politically motivated?
  - ch_123 7y ago
    By that logic, all current affairs investigations must be politically motivated.
  - sergiomattei 7y ago
    Before you dismiss their reporting... BuzzFeed News is a new branch of the company, with its own autonomy from the whole thing. They have Pulitzer-winning staff in there, and their investigative reporting is actually quite good.
    - GordonS 7y ago
      I agree, but WTF did they keep the name "BuzFeed", which has such a poor standing?
  - oro92 7y ago
    Straw man and ad hominem? Check Completely anonymous? Check Value to this conversation? Zilch You’ve made your point. “Lookit me act like a banal conspiracy theorist for attention. Let me baselessly challenge the way society works. I have no answers or framework, just Jaden Smith twitter level questions I won’t ever try to answer myself. I’ll just pepper others with pointless questions challenging their views for no reason.” K bud. Figger it out
  - mortenjorck 7y ago
    > You call buzzfeed journalists? This comes up every time with a Buzzfeed News investigative piece. Honestly, I don’t know why they kept the name when they launched their actual journalism org; it’s kind of like starting a legitimate, old-school blood testing laboratory under the Theranos name.
pjc50 7y ago
Yes? That's how news works, finding a local angle on a foreign story?
mikeash 7y ago
Bullets are better than hauling everyone off to secret prisons where they are tortured to death over months. So I guess bullets are cool!

senthil_rajasek 7y ago

No tear gas is best.

meshr 7y ago
The best is not to use and provoke violence at all.
- anigbrowl 7y ago
  What should people do if they form a consensus that they are being oppressed and asking politely fails to yield the desired result?
  - meshr 7y ago
    They should grow first as much as possible before considering to fight with much bigger enemy so that the winner would be unknown. To do so they should define a problem as time-space independent one. It is global problem here that we still haven’t developed tools to force countries to comply with their own laws to stop violence. We need worldwide consensus here what everyone should do in this case before he hits the same problem.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
- wbronitsky 7y ago
  Is your argument that the solution to violence is no violence? I believe that assertion is self evidently useless and harmful to the discussion. We would do a lot better to try and raise the tenor of the conversation by discussing interesting viewpoints, not asserting that the solution to something is to simply stop doing it
  - meshr 7y ago
    My answer to violence is to be smarter. It is global problem here that we still haven’t developed tools to force countries to comply with their own laws to stop violence. We need worldwide consensus here what everyone should do in this case before he hits the same problem.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - wbronitsky 7y ago
      These blanket statements about “violence” are mostly devoid of meaning. What are we defining as violence in this context such that someone could be “smarter” to avoid it? Is the suggestion that someone getting assaulted should be “smarter” to solve their problem? What about protesters that are being attacked by the police? What about a country that is being invaded? I don’t understand how intelligence can fix “violence” or what “violence” even is in this context. Moreover, asserting that we need “world wide consensus” strikes me as an incredibly naïve point. Is there anything that everyone agrees on? Are we stuck with violence until everyone agrees? Grand statements about getting along don’t seem to chip away at the problem at all. In fact, I would assert that they are fiercely counterproductive; one can say we all need to get along and until then we have no culpability.
      - meshr 7y ago
        What I mean is to fight back with your brain but not with your body. Someone getting assaulted should be “smarter” to not fight back physically with much bigger opponent. You should look how Edward Snowden or Julian Assange fight back. “world wide consensus” means to create big enough entity who is ready to act when law is violated anywhere in the world so that its actions can hurt violator. Imagine the world where open-source is replaced by such entity.
- PavlovsCat 7y ago
  How does one get from these https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d10k4e/dont_let_the_police_get_you_down_sound_on/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d10k4e/dont_let_t... https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cv9y4c/protesters_cheered_by_citizens_after_safely/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cv9y4c/protesters... https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0iqpy/2000_medicial_professionals_singing_do_you_hear/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0iqpy/2000_medic... to these https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cutlyk/who_is_more_violant/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cutlyk/who_is_mor... https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0re3y/police_doing_a_double_take_and_arresting_random/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0re3y/police_doi... https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cxz64b/300_uncut_footage_of_the_hk_police_terrorist/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cxz64b/300_uncut_... https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0yl4g/police_deploying_their_appropriate_force/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d0yl4g/police_dep... https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d10ewo/8_seconds_of_several_police_abusing_a_caught/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d10ewo/8_seconds_... https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cp0gb2/hk_police_shooting_pelts_within_1m_range_into/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/cp0gb2/hk_police_... https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/c04o32/french_journalist_challenges_brutal_hong_kong/ https://www.reddit.com/r/China/comments/c04o32/french_journa... ? Now consider that's just the tip of the iceberg, the result of a few minutes of searching and scrolling. I know there's instances of protesters being violent, but it's a.) not possible for 30% of a city to be on the streets at the same time, without even more supporting them, and it's not possible for all these brave, peaceful, beautiful people to be singing songs like they do, for a protest that's just instigated by a bunch of hooligans or Western intelligence agencies, or however the attempts to smear them go. b.) not possible to explain most of the police brutality by any action on behalf of the protesters. Which some police apparently call "cockroaches", instances of that being caught on video, too.
- newguy1234 7y ago
  Violence is justified when you are under an oppressive government. See american revolution and similar violent uprisings. That's the reality. The whole non-violent activism only works when your government isn't oppressive and can actually be reformed through non-violent movements.
  - meshr 7y ago
    I agree violence is justified when someone violates rules. China did violate ‘Article 5 of the Basic Law’ before 2047. So it is global problem that we still haven’t developed tools to force countries to comply with their own laws to stop violence. Or is USA trade war kind of punishment for China?
- PavlovsCat 7y ago
  HKPF throwing tear gas at journalists with no protesters even around: https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d1b4kg/hong_kong_police_throws_tear_gas_grenade_at/ https://www.reddit.com/r/HongKong/comments/d1b4kg/hong_kong_...

seamyb88 7y ago

Yeah, leave the labour extorting weapons manufacturer alone, guys!

remotecool 7y ago
The workers are paid over minimum wage. Working conditions might suck, but why is this any different than any small company with poor working conditions?
- danharaj 7y ago
  Workers of the world unite!
  - edoceo 7y ago
    Seize the means of production!
    - seamyb88 7y ago
      The only thing the working classes have to lose are their shackles.
      - inflatableDodo 7y ago
        You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  > why is this any different than any small company with poor working conditions? Because what they manufacture is a weapon that's being exported and used against civilian protesters?
  - mieseratte 7y ago
    Couldn’t the HK police buy it from somewhere else? Or domestically produce?

oro92 7y ago

Journalists investigating current events? Huh. Next you’ll be telling me scientists only investigate results of experiments! Police only investigate results of crimes! What’s next? Washing laundry after it’s dirty? Where will it end!!

remotecool 7y ago
You call buzzfeed journalists? Even so, why no interest in this company 5 years ago if it's not politically motivated?
- ch_123 7y ago
  By that logic, all current affairs investigations must be politically motivated.
- sergiomattei 7y ago
  Before you dismiss their reporting... BuzzFeed News is a new branch of the company, with its own autonomy from the whole thing. They have Pulitzer-winning staff in there, and their investigative reporting is actually quite good.
  - GordonS 7y ago
    I agree, but WTF did they keep the name "BuzFeed", which has such a poor standing?
- oro92 7y ago
  Straw man and ad hominem? Check Completely anonymous? Check Value to this conversation? Zilch You’ve made your point. “Lookit me act like a banal conspiracy theorist for attention. Let me baselessly challenge the way society works. I have no answers or framework, just Jaden Smith twitter level questions I won’t ever try to answer myself. I’ll just pepper others with pointless questions challenging their views for no reason.” K bud. Figger it out
- mortenjorck 7y ago
  > You call buzzfeed journalists? This comes up every time with a Buzzfeed News investigative piece. Honestly, I don’t know why they kept the name when they launched their actual journalism org; it’s kind of like starting a legitimate, old-school blood testing laboratory under the Theranos name.

pjc50 7y ago

Yes? That's how news works, finding a local angle on a foreign story?

mikeash 7y ago

Bullets are better than hauling everyone off to secret prisons where they are tortured to death over months. So I guess bullets are cool!