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> the limited data available was largely positive yet research was basically banned. Which is prima facie insane; these drugs are named for their ability to af

> the limited data available was largely positive yet research was basically banned. Which is prima facie insane; these drugs are named for their ability to affect the brain, and have some of the most diverse and potent effects of known mind-affecting drugs. Especially since some of the most-wanted drugs, treatments for depression, are not that easy to tell from a placebo. When we treat an infection, a cancer, or an autoimmune response, we have a huge range of medicines including incredibly potent scorched-earth stuff. When it comes to the mind, our most powerful drugs are... lithium? Adderall? To be fair, we have very powerful antipsychotics but when it comes to more mundane disease we are just really underpowered. Adderall is a band-aid and even lithium isn't that great. We're crippling ourselves by not investigating more drugs. I don't expect to figure out the core mechanisms underlying the brain in the same way we can figure out, say, antibiotics and antivirals, but there are a huge number of psychoactive drugs and any of them could just be waiting to be weaponized.

tempguy9999 7y ago
I kind of agree with you but I don't like some of this. > Especially since some of the most-wanted drugs, treatments for depression, are not that easy to tell from a placebo Anti-depressents have a good track record, though imperfect. > our most powerful drugs are... lithium? What are you saying, that lithium has a short name so it's crap? That it's a simple compound so it's crap? That it's a metal compound so it's crap? What? I've known people on lithium, if it works, you're beyond grateful for it (I've not been on lithium but prozac for me treated a life-destroying depression). Please don't slag off drugs so casually without posting statistical evidence. Those of us who've had successful treatments can attest to their value, mixed as it can be. It's better than the appalling alternative. I can't find my posts but here's one that accords with my horrible experiences https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16435140 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16435140 "f I hadn't gotten a prescription for Prozac I probably would have killed myself by now"
- hwillis 7y ago
  > Anti-depressents have a good track record, though imperfect. Antidepressants and particularly SSRIs are incredibly important and I think we should continue to prescribe them as we currently do. I even think that their lackluster performance in double blind trials is not really representative of how effective they are, and that they save huge numbers of lives. Brains are hard and we cannot expect a cure to depression any time soon. Still... antidepressants suck. You can stick an antibiotic line in someones femoral artery and clear up illnesses in hours. Medicines are capable of incredible things. Each life saved by antidepressants is a miracle but like... We have no last line antidepressant. Theres nothing we can do for suicidally depressed people except maybe sedate them. Depression is the bubonic plague. Its one of the most lethal diseases out there. Every single antidepressant is like throwing a z-pac at the black death. It's a tiny glimmer of hope, but that's it. For people making repeated suicide attempts, they would normally be put on something stronger with more side effects. Say something that just made them happy all the time, but maybe didnt help them work out any issues. Just a bandaid. We have nothing like that. > What are you saying, that lithium has a short name so it's crap? That it's a simple compound so it's crap? That it's a metal compound so it's crap? What? That despite being one of the most heavyweight treatments for a psychological disorder, its just not that great. It does work at very high doses, but it's more like a second line of defence. Its like one of the reserve antibiotics; maybe a little hard on your kidneys, but seldom used so nothing is resistant to it. Lithium works slightly more often when other things don't, but it isnt a silver bullet of the kind we have to treat other things. > Please don't slag off drugs so casually without posting statistical evidence. Those of us who've had successful treatments can attest to their value, mixed as it can be. It's better than the appalling alternative. Absolutely. These drugs are incredibly important. For millions of people they're the one thread tenuously connecting them to a normal life. I rely on adderall to function, and clinical trials show that past 5-10 years its statistically equivalent to placebo. And I know that is wrong. You, I, and millions of others deserve better medicines. The fact that the existing medicines are barely holding us together does not make them less important. Just the opposite.

tempguy9999 7y ago

I kind of agree with you but I don't like some of this. > Especially since some of the most-wanted drugs, treatments for depression, are not that easy to tell from a placebo Anti-depressents have a good track record, though imperfect. > our most powerful drugs are... lithium? What are you saying, that lithium has a short name so it's crap? That it's a simple compound so it's crap? That it's a metal compound so it's crap? What? I've known people on lithium, if it works, you're beyond grateful for it (I've not been on lithium but prozac for me treated a life-destroying depression). Please don't slag off drugs so casually without posting statistical evidence. Those of us who've had successful treatments can attest to their value, mixed as it can be. It's better than the appalling alternative. I can't find my posts but here's one that accords with my horrible experiences https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16435140 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16435140 "f I hadn't gotten a prescription for Prozac I probably would have killed myself by now"

hwillis 7y ago
> Anti-depressents have a good track record, though imperfect. Antidepressants and particularly SSRIs are incredibly important and I think we should continue to prescribe them as we currently do. I even think that their lackluster performance in double blind trials is not really representative of how effective they are, and that they save huge numbers of lives. Brains are hard and we cannot expect a cure to depression any time soon. Still... antidepressants suck. You can stick an antibiotic line in someones femoral artery and clear up illnesses in hours. Medicines are capable of incredible things. Each life saved by antidepressants is a miracle but like... We have no last line antidepressant. Theres nothing we can do for suicidally depressed people except maybe sedate them. Depression is the bubonic plague. Its one of the most lethal diseases out there. Every single antidepressant is like throwing a z-pac at the black death. It's a tiny glimmer of hope, but that's it. For people making repeated suicide attempts, they would normally be put on something stronger with more side effects. Say something that just made them happy all the time, but maybe didnt help them work out any issues. Just a bandaid. We have nothing like that. > What are you saying, that lithium has a short name so it's crap? That it's a simple compound so it's crap? That it's a metal compound so it's crap? What? That despite being one of the most heavyweight treatments for a psychological disorder, its just not that great. It does work at very high doses, but it's more like a second line of defence. Its like one of the reserve antibiotics; maybe a little hard on your kidneys, but seldom used so nothing is resistant to it. Lithium works slightly more often when other things don't, but it isnt a silver bullet of the kind we have to treat other things. > Please don't slag off drugs so casually without posting statistical evidence. Those of us who've had successful treatments can attest to their value, mixed as it can be. It's better than the appalling alternative. Absolutely. These drugs are incredibly important. For millions of people they're the one thread tenuously connecting them to a normal life. I rely on adderall to function, and clinical trials show that past 5-10 years its statistically equivalent to placebo. And I know that is wrong. You, I, and millions of others deserve better medicines. The fact that the existing medicines are barely holding us together does not make them less important. Just the opposite.