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Disclaimer: I'm Swedish so I guess you could say I'm culturally biased, but I have no economic interest in this. You can always try "snus". Snuff has a bad rep

by hnarn 7y ago

Disclaimer: I'm Swedish so I guess you could say I'm culturally biased, but I have no economic interest in this. You can always try "snus". Snuff has a bad rep in the US because of the association with chewing tobacco and old westerns, but snus in a pouch under your lip is actually very hygienic, easily disposable, practically invisible and obviously spares your lungs, while still giving you a nicotine buzz. Obviously no way of consuming nicotine is risk free, but I use it every now and then and I enjoy it, especially with beer or coffee. I think Swedish Match is attempting to market snus in the US under the "General" brand[1], might be worth checking out if you want to try an alternate way of consuming tobacco. [1]: https://www.generalsnus.com https://www.generalsnus.com

dmix 7y ago
A lot of hockey players here in Canada use snus and even after learning how to do it properly it still makes me want to vomit. Plus the idea of a 'spit bottle' is even more anti-social than massive vape clouds (which are entirely unnecessary and becoming taboo).
- calvinmorrison 7y ago
  Snus you do not spit
- hnarn 7y ago
  There's no such thing as a "spit bottle" required for "proper" usage of snus. Perhaps if you are using snus that isn't portioned in bags and you wish to keep it in for a long time, you'll need to spit at some point -- but the vast majority of people do use portioned snus, and it is normally discarded before it starts running in a dedicated part of the box you took it from.[1] [1]: https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fd13o5qkgojw0n2.cloudfront.net%2Fimage%2Fcache%2Fcatalog%2FPresenter%2FSnusdosor%2F2019%2Fsnusdosa-portion-med-gravyr-innebandyzap-1002-4822-4-0-1-2-800x800.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fd13o5qkgojw...
  - dmix 7y ago
    Strange, I wonder why all the hockey players I know used one. I'll ask them next time, I'm not much an expert on the subject. But I do know one gets his from Europe.
    - hnarn 7y ago
      > I wonder why all the hockey players I know used one. My guess would be that they did not use "portioned" snus. It's a bit of a macho thing, so the prevalence of the loose kind that you have to bake into a ball yourself and get your hands dirty is much higher among professional athletes, car mechanics and the like, while most regular consumers prefer the portioned bags. If you're interested in the statistics, about 77% prefer portioned snus.[1] I believe one of the major reasons that people prefer to take their snus "straight" is because it's stronger, but the whole thing about dirtying your hands, making a mess when discarding it, going around spitting etc. creates some obvious issues for regular office workers or other consumer groups with similar opinions. [1]: https://news.cision.com/se/nordic-snus/r/hur-snusar-svenskarna-egentligen-,c2881751 https://news.cision.com/se/nordic-snus/r/hur-snusar-svenskar...
mc32 7y ago
It’s my impression snuff and chewing tobacco beside being a bit gross (spittoons) it causes mouth cancer in some fraction of users.
- Aloha 7y ago
  It did prior to the early 2000's, I've read (but cant find the source) that they changed the manufacture to reduce the number of nitrotessamines to be in the same range as the swedish style.
  - hnarn 7y ago
    I think you're referring to nitrosamines, and according to Robert Nilsson who is a professor at Stockholm University, there is "no proof of correlation between snus and cancer"[1] and indeed in 2002, the warning labels had to be changed,[2] and today "only" reads (my translation): "This tobacco product harms your health and is addictive", which is a far cry from the EU mandated warning on cigarettes that goes more like "Smoking kills", with some variants. [1]: https://www.dagensmedicin.se/artiklar/2012/05/26/snus-bor-inte-klassas-som-cancerrisk/ https://www.dagensmedicin.se/artiklar/2012/05/26/snus-bor-in... [2]: https://www.snusbolaget.se/snusjournalen/snus-och-halsa-del-2/ https://www.snusbolaget.se/snusjournalen/snus-och-halsa-del-...
- hnarn 7y ago
  I'm sure that the risk of cancer isn't negligible, but again, spitting is not something that users of portioned snus do, the bags are normally discarded way before they turn runny.
Fnoord 7y ago
What is the effect on your teeth though? How would you deal with it?
- hnarn 7y ago
  I haven't personally noticed any effect, but I'm sure it does affect your teeth in a similar way to drinking tea and coffee in the long run. Beyond that, it creates temporary irritation on your gums (temporary meaning it goes away if you stop and doesn't damage your gums permanently), and over a long period of time it can cause a permanent effect of receding your gum line, which of course isn't great. I'm no authority on how serious these effects are, how common they are etc. but I would imagine that they would require some pretty heavy usage under a long period of time, and that "loose" (un-portioned) snus probably affects your gums much harder than the more popular portioned variant in small bags, since the un-portioned variant is pure tobacco with no material in between it and your gums. (And, on the topic, I am quite sure that in addition to the comparably low health risks of snus in contrast to e/cigarettes, the trust in the origin and the quality of the raw material used is rightfully so higher than that of the materials used in after market vape juice.)
  - Fnoord 7y ago
    Thanks, I did not know snus was used in those bags. I always thought it was akin to what I know as "pruimtabak" [1]. I've since learned (via Wikipedia) that there is original snus or "lössnus" and "Portionssnus" with "White portion" being a variant. It makes a lot of sense now. [1] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruimtabak https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruimtabak

by hnarn 7y ago

dmix 7y ago

A lot of hockey players here in Canada use snus and even after learning how to do it properly it still makes me want to vomit. Plus the idea of a 'spit bottle' is even more anti-social than massive vape clouds (which are entirely unnecessary and becoming taboo).

calvinmorrison 7y ago
Snus you do not spit
hnarn 7y ago
There's no such thing as a "spit bottle" required for "proper" usage of snus. Perhaps if you are using snus that isn't portioned in bags and you wish to keep it in for a long time, you'll need to spit at some point -- but the vast majority of people do use portioned snus, and it is normally discarded before it starts running in a dedicated part of the box you took it from.[1] [1]: https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fd13o5qkgojw0n2.cloudfront.net%2Fimage%2Fcache%2Fcatalog%2FPresenter%2FSnusdosor%2F2019%2Fsnusdosa-portion-med-gravyr-innebandyzap-1002-4822-4-0-1-2-800x800.jpg&f=1&nofb=1 https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fd13o5qkgojw...
- dmix 7y ago
  Strange, I wonder why all the hockey players I know used one. I'll ask them next time, I'm not much an expert on the subject. But I do know one gets his from Europe.
  - hnarn 7y ago
    > I wonder why all the hockey players I know used one. My guess would be that they did not use "portioned" snus. It's a bit of a macho thing, so the prevalence of the loose kind that you have to bake into a ball yourself and get your hands dirty is much higher among professional athletes, car mechanics and the like, while most regular consumers prefer the portioned bags. If you're interested in the statistics, about 77% prefer portioned snus.[1] I believe one of the major reasons that people prefer to take their snus "straight" is because it's stronger, but the whole thing about dirtying your hands, making a mess when discarding it, going around spitting etc. creates some obvious issues for regular office workers or other consumer groups with similar opinions. [1]: https://news.cision.com/se/nordic-snus/r/hur-snusar-svenskarna-egentligen-,c2881751 https://news.cision.com/se/nordic-snus/r/hur-snusar-svenskar...

mc32 7y ago

It’s my impression snuff and chewing tobacco beside being a bit gross (spittoons) it causes mouth cancer in some fraction of users.

Aloha 7y ago
It did prior to the early 2000's, I've read (but cant find the source) that they changed the manufacture to reduce the number of nitrotessamines to be in the same range as the swedish style.
- hnarn 7y ago
  I think you're referring to nitrosamines, and according to Robert Nilsson who is a professor at Stockholm University, there is "no proof of correlation between snus and cancer"[1] and indeed in 2002, the warning labels had to be changed,[2] and today "only" reads (my translation): "This tobacco product harms your health and is addictive", which is a far cry from the EU mandated warning on cigarettes that goes more like "Smoking kills", with some variants. [1]: https://www.dagensmedicin.se/artiklar/2012/05/26/snus-bor-inte-klassas-som-cancerrisk/ https://www.dagensmedicin.se/artiklar/2012/05/26/snus-bor-in... [2]: https://www.snusbolaget.se/snusjournalen/snus-och-halsa-del-2/ https://www.snusbolaget.se/snusjournalen/snus-och-halsa-del-...
hnarn 7y ago
I'm sure that the risk of cancer isn't negligible, but again, spitting is not something that users of portioned snus do, the bags are normally discarded way before they turn runny.

Fnoord 7y ago

What is the effect on your teeth though? How would you deal with it?

hnarn 7y ago
I haven't personally noticed any effect, but I'm sure it does affect your teeth in a similar way to drinking tea and coffee in the long run. Beyond that, it creates temporary irritation on your gums (temporary meaning it goes away if you stop and doesn't damage your gums permanently), and over a long period of time it can cause a permanent effect of receding your gum line, which of course isn't great. I'm no authority on how serious these effects are, how common they are etc. but I would imagine that they would require some pretty heavy usage under a long period of time, and that "loose" (un-portioned) snus probably affects your gums much harder than the more popular portioned variant in small bags, since the un-portioned variant is pure tobacco with no material in between it and your gums. (And, on the topic, I am quite sure that in addition to the comparably low health risks of snus in contrast to e/cigarettes, the trust in the origin and the quality of the raw material used is rightfully so higher than that of the materials used in after market vape juice.)
- Fnoord 7y ago
  Thanks, I did not know snus was used in those bags. I always thought it was akin to what I know as "pruimtabak" [1]. I've since learned (via Wikipedia) that there is original snus or "lössnus" and "Portionssnus" with "White portion" being a variant. It makes a lot of sense now. [1] https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruimtabak https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruimtabak