7 ms·

I read quite a bit and generally like Goodreads for what it is, but I agree that it's essentially not grown at all in 12 years. There are parts that are broken

I read quite a bit and generally like Goodreads for what it is, but I agree that it's essentially not grown at all in 12 years. There are parts that are broken, there are features that are lacking, and it frustrates me to no end. Many, many times I've thought of how I'd build a competitor, but it is pointless because Goodread's moat is too big: the integrations with the kindle go a very long way towards cultivating engagement (when you start a book, kindle will update your profile by default, it'll add your rating, mark the book as finished, all through the normal ux of the kindle). There is no way, in my opinion, to overcome the handicap of needing users to manually update what is automatically updated by the kindle. And I can't see 'linking' accounts working because there'd be no incentive for Amazon not to block access from a competitor. And, frankly, the kindle is the only platform that matters, it likely has 95%+ of the ereader market. Goodreads is bad because it is a monopoly, and that, frankly, sucks.

aklemm 7y ago
If you can’t bootstrap engagement with the Kindle integrations, maybe you could bootstrap community/engagement by integrating with public library catalogs and checkout records? Patrons could opt in to sharing their activity automatically and the library website could have update options as part of the checkout management process. Might be a nice little niche entrance into a customer base there.
- crystaln 7y ago
  Library consumers don’t seem like the most lucrative customer base.
  - aklemm 7y ago
    My instinct and experience contradicts that.
- cglong 7y ago
  Our local library's website is based on a platform called BiblioCommons that actually provides a lot of Goodreads' features (including some off the author's wishlist). I can organize all media in their catalogs into various bookshelves, privately or publicly, and add ratings and comments to each. Amazingly though, this system also doesn't integrate with checkout/-in records, but this seems like a small, easily-fixable feature gap.
vertoc 7y ago
This seems like a fun side project idea honestly - can I ask what’s most broken and which great features are missing? I took a quick look and there is a official Goodreads API that you can use to pull titles from people’s accounts (once they authorize your app). Yes, Amazon could shut it down but eh, might be worth the risk
- mmanfrin 7y ago
  My bouts of wanting to build a competitor usually arise when I'm trying to find something I'd assume would be a feature and isn't, and I'm having a hard time remembering everything, but: 1) I desperately want a feature that'll show me the books most-reviewed among my friends, or highest reviewed with >X # of reviews. You can see what individual friends have reviewed, but there is nothing I've found to aggregate. 2) More reading stats (right now it shows number of books, and total pages at the end of the year). I wanna see breakdowns of categories, authors, fiction/nonfiction. 3) I had an idea for per-book or per-series wikis that have spoiler-bracketed info. E.g., [spoiler b2p300 "King Soandso is murdered by Assassin Soandso"] would show in a book wiki if you are past book 2, page 300. I read a bit of fantasy and have a tendency to want to google 'who is x', but that is fraught with spoilers. This is a feature that could exist as its own site, but I think it'd be a good companion to a goodreads-esque site. 4) Book Discovery seems super weak on Goodreads and I feel I could build something significantly more useful.
- input_sh 7y ago
  > This seems like a fun side project idea honestly - can I ask what’s most broken and which great features are missing? It's basically just the momentum it has, alongside with crowdfunded book directory (you don't have to enter the metadata manually in like 99.999% of the cases). I'm not gonna say "don't bother", but I've personally used three Goodreads alternatives over the years and nobody mentioned a single one of them yet. I've settled on BookDigits[0], which is what Goodreads should be if you ask me. > Yes, Amazon could shut it down but eh, might be worth the risk Technically API isn't the only way users could extract their data from Goodreads. There's also export/import tool that exports data in CSV, and there's also RSS feed that you could ask for. If there's one good thing I can say about Goodreads, it's that it's not a walled garden. [0] https://bookdigits.com/ https://bookdigits.com/
TuringNYC 7y ago
>> Goodreads is bad because it is a monopoly, and that, frankly, sucks. I'd be more disappointed if I had to go to five different sites to see what different segments of my friends were reading. Sort of like...messaging...where I have to use WhatsApp, SMS, FB Messenger, Slack, and GChat because different friends/family are adamant on one particular silo. I know monopolies are not good, but there are some benefits in scale, especially for a site like this where i'm not paying and i'm not forced into buying bundles/packages I dont want.
- testis321 7y ago
  XMPP was a solution to all of those problems (except sms), but even the ones who supported it, broke the support one by one (starting with google and facebook). "one protocol to suit them all" would be a lot harder with books though
duncanawoods 7y ago
I wouldn't be so defeatist! I used Goodreads manually for a bit. Adding books only takes seconds which seems inconsequential compared to how long it takes to read them. I didn't continue with it because there just wasn't any real value. I don't want a trophy shelf of read books or get automated recommendations by "people who have read similar books" because those titles are very predictable. I'd need something different e.g. something facillitating deep discussion and Q&A organised by chapter or something. Get authors participating and I'm there 100%.
- inimino 7y ago
  I've only ever used Goodreads manually, have never owned and have absolutely no interest whatsoever in e-readers. (I trust physical books I can hold and write on, thank you very much!) I've used it a few times to show other people what I've read and help them get book recommendations or even find a book title again.
  - dorchadas 7y ago
    I use my Kindle a lot; it's great for travel and I can use it while on an exercise bike or while walking much easier. However, I still only ever use Goodreads manually, and I've marked every book I've read for the past 4 years (at 52+/year). I prefer it manual, and often keep wifi off on my Kindle unless I need to update Scribd downloads.
- exergy 7y ago
  Fuck yeah to all your points
- rasfincher 7y ago
  I only use it manually, and you're right, it doesn't take much to add a book. I did use the integration on the Kindle when I used a Kindle, but I switched to checking out paper books at the library last year, and I haven't missed a beat.
- mbo 7y ago
  Perhaps something like the discussion that takes place on Letterboxd or Rateyourmusic?
hutattedonmyarm 7y ago
> the integrations with the kindle go a very long way towards cultivating engagement (when you start a book, kindle will update your profile by default, it'll add your rating, mark the book as finished, all through the normal ux of the kindle Not in Germany though
- input_sh 7y ago
  I believe you're talking about Kindle apps, while the parent comment is talking about Kindle, the e-reader. If not, I'm clueless because I have purchased mine from German Amazon and it does all of those things.
  - Roritharr 7y ago
    It depends to which Amazon Store your Kindle is linked. I've got the Kindle Oasis 1 and mine still doesn't have Goodreads enabled because it's linked to amazon.de Really annoying.
  - hutattedonmyarm 7y ago
    Weird, my Paperwhite is linked to amazon.de and it doesn't
- vilhelm_s 7y ago
  ...at least not if you want the lights in your apartment to work at the same time. https://techniktagebuch.tumblr.com/post/185742896236/september-2018 https://techniktagebuch.tumblr.com/post/185742896236/septemb...
  - hutattedonmyarm 7y ago
    Hah, good news I don't own anything Alexa!
shscs911 7y ago
I don't think its all that bad. My only gripe with Goodreads is the lack of a proper tagging system, something like NovelUpdates `Release Filtering` which uses tags and genres in addition to categories. My point is Goodreads is certainly good for getting a feel of the book with its blurb, but not so good for discovering new books via filtering.
kamilszybalski 7y ago
I once worked for a startup where we attempted this, in a sense. We built an app that let users take a picture of their bookshelf, we scanned the spines then digitized your "Shelfie". Our pitch was that we would give you the ebook of the print book that you own either for free or at a deep discount. We built a pretty complex recommendations engine on top of this and quite frankly, it worked really well. Simplified, if you have actual photos of bookshelves it's easy to start building recommendations. Person a read a,b,c, person b also read a,b,c, however, person a read e,f so maybe person b would also like e and f. The main issue is that publishers are archaic and building a sustainable revenue model against that is a challenge.
heroprotagonist 7y ago
Honestly, I have been feeling that the integration with Kindle, and Amazon in general, is what killed it for me. They took an audience of bibliophiles (and their ratings) and expanded it to the mass market users, encouraging them to star and comment on what they just read. What I'd really like is more access to the data and filtering mechanisms to try to build recommendations for myself. Example: Find the highest rated books that I haven't read in the Fantasy category, as rated by an audience of people who have rated at least 7 out of 10 books from a list I provide with a score of 4 or higher, and who have never rated a Twilight book with a 3 or higher. And if that doesn't work, maybe I tweak it a bit. Build a score threshold for excluding reviews from people based on other criteria about things I don't like. The point is that the data would help make the decisions.. Of course, that won't happen because of privacy concerns. With all the data locked up it means only Amazon can do it, and they're failing at it.
- OJFord 7y ago
  > Find the highest rated books that I haven't read in the Fantasy category, as rated by an audience of people who have rated at least 7 out of 10 books from a list I provide with a score of 4 or higher, and who have never rated a Twilight book with a 3 or higher. People in many different jobs use Excel and SQL databases - I wonder if enough to make 'power user' but mass market apps with that sort of interface.
blondin 7y ago
oh it's like youtube then? broken but way too big to wake a competitor.
jasonvorhe 7y ago
I don't think this is actually working world wide, my Good Reads account isn't aware of anything I purchase via my Kindle, let alone share my reviews or reading status.
Marsymars 7y ago
> And, frankly, the kindle is the only platform that matters, it likely has 95%+ of the ereader market. I have trouble finding up-to-date sources, but Googling has some out-of-date data indicating Kindle in the mid-80s for American marketshare and mid-50s for global marketshare. Personally, I've found Kindle and Kobo ereaders to be broadly equivalent from a hardware perspective. Kindle has better integration with the Amazon ecosystem, while Kobo has better support for DRM-free formats and better integration with local libraries. Ebooks that Amazon and Kobo offer also seem to be broadly equivalent in selection and price. (And Kobo will pricematch Amazon, or anyone else.) Largest different I've noticed are audiobooks that are exclusive to one or the other, with Audible having more of those, but also being more expensive than Kobo's audiobook service.

aklemm 7y ago

If you can’t bootstrap engagement with the Kindle integrations, maybe you could bootstrap community/engagement by integrating with public library catalogs and checkout records? Patrons could opt in to sharing their activity automatically and the library website could have update options as part of the checkout management process. Might be a nice little niche entrance into a customer base there.

crystaln 7y ago
Library consumers don’t seem like the most lucrative customer base.
- aklemm 7y ago
  My instinct and experience contradicts that.
cglong 7y ago
Our local library's website is based on a platform called BiblioCommons that actually provides a lot of Goodreads' features (including some off the author's wishlist). I can organize all media in their catalogs into various bookshelves, privately or publicly, and add ratings and comments to each. Amazingly though, this system also doesn't integrate with checkout/-in records, but this seems like a small, easily-fixable feature gap.

vertoc 7y ago

This seems like a fun side project idea honestly - can I ask what’s most broken and which great features are missing? I took a quick look and there is a official Goodreads API that you can use to pull titles from people’s accounts (once they authorize your app). Yes, Amazon could shut it down but eh, might be worth the risk

mmanfrin 7y ago
My bouts of wanting to build a competitor usually arise when I'm trying to find something I'd assume would be a feature and isn't, and I'm having a hard time remembering everything, but: 1) I desperately want a feature that'll show me the books most-reviewed among my friends, or highest reviewed with >X # of reviews. You can see what individual friends have reviewed, but there is nothing I've found to aggregate. 2) More reading stats (right now it shows number of books, and total pages at the end of the year). I wanna see breakdowns of categories, authors, fiction/nonfiction. 3) I had an idea for per-book or per-series wikis that have spoiler-bracketed info. E.g., [spoiler b2p300 "King Soandso is murdered by Assassin Soandso"] would show in a book wiki if you are past book 2, page 300. I read a bit of fantasy and have a tendency to want to google 'who is x', but that is fraught with spoilers. This is a feature that could exist as its own site, but I think it'd be a good companion to a goodreads-esque site. 4) Book Discovery seems super weak on Goodreads and I feel I could build something significantly more useful.
input_sh 7y ago
> This seems like a fun side project idea honestly - can I ask what’s most broken and which great features are missing? It's basically just the momentum it has, alongside with crowdfunded book directory (you don't have to enter the metadata manually in like 99.999% of the cases). I'm not gonna say "don't bother", but I've personally used three Goodreads alternatives over the years and nobody mentioned a single one of them yet. I've settled on BookDigits[0], which is what Goodreads should be if you ask me. > Yes, Amazon could shut it down but eh, might be worth the risk Technically API isn't the only way users could extract their data from Goodreads. There's also export/import tool that exports data in CSV, and there's also RSS feed that you could ask for. If there's one good thing I can say about Goodreads, it's that it's not a walled garden. [0] https://bookdigits.com/ https://bookdigits.com/

TuringNYC 7y ago

>> Goodreads is bad because it is a monopoly, and that, frankly, sucks. I'd be more disappointed if I had to go to five different sites to see what different segments of my friends were reading. Sort of like...messaging...where I have to use WhatsApp, SMS, FB Messenger, Slack, and GChat because different friends/family are adamant on one particular silo. I know monopolies are not good, but there are some benefits in scale, especially for a site like this where i'm not paying and i'm not forced into buying bundles/packages I dont want.

testis321 7y ago
XMPP was a solution to all of those problems (except sms), but even the ones who supported it, broke the support one by one (starting with google and facebook). "one protocol to suit them all" would be a lot harder with books though

duncanawoods 7y ago

I wouldn't be so defeatist! I used Goodreads manually for a bit. Adding books only takes seconds which seems inconsequential compared to how long it takes to read them. I didn't continue with it because there just wasn't any real value. I don't want a trophy shelf of read books or get automated recommendations by "people who have read similar books" because those titles are very predictable. I'd need something different e.g. something facillitating deep discussion and Q&A organised by chapter or something. Get authors participating and I'm there 100%.

inimino 7y ago
I've only ever used Goodreads manually, have never owned and have absolutely no interest whatsoever in e-readers. (I trust physical books I can hold and write on, thank you very much!) I've used it a few times to show other people what I've read and help them get book recommendations or even find a book title again.
- dorchadas 7y ago
  I use my Kindle a lot; it's great for travel and I can use it while on an exercise bike or while walking much easier. However, I still only ever use Goodreads manually, and I've marked every book I've read for the past 4 years (at 52+/year). I prefer it manual, and often keep wifi off on my Kindle unless I need to update Scribd downloads.
exergy 7y ago
Fuck yeah to all your points
rasfincher 7y ago
I only use it manually, and you're right, it doesn't take much to add a book. I did use the integration on the Kindle when I used a Kindle, but I switched to checking out paper books at the library last year, and I haven't missed a beat.
mbo 7y ago
Perhaps something like the discussion that takes place on Letterboxd or Rateyourmusic?

hutattedonmyarm 7y ago

> the integrations with the kindle go a very long way towards cultivating engagement (when you start a book, kindle will update your profile by default, it'll add your rating, mark the book as finished, all through the normal ux of the kindle Not in Germany though

input_sh 7y ago
I believe you're talking about Kindle apps, while the parent comment is talking about Kindle, the e-reader. If not, I'm clueless because I have purchased mine from German Amazon and it does all of those things.
- Roritharr 7y ago
  It depends to which Amazon Store your Kindle is linked. I've got the Kindle Oasis 1 and mine still doesn't have Goodreads enabled because it's linked to amazon.de Really annoying.
- hutattedonmyarm 7y ago
  Weird, my Paperwhite is linked to amazon.de and it doesn't
vilhelm_s 7y ago
...at least not if you want the lights in your apartment to work at the same time. https://techniktagebuch.tumblr.com/post/185742896236/september-2018 https://techniktagebuch.tumblr.com/post/185742896236/septemb...
- hutattedonmyarm 7y ago
  Hah, good news I don't own anything Alexa!

shscs911 7y ago

I don't think its all that bad. My only gripe with Goodreads is the lack of a proper tagging system, something like NovelUpdates `Release Filtering` which uses tags and genres in addition to categories. My point is Goodreads is certainly good for getting a feel of the book with its blurb, but not so good for discovering new books via filtering.

kamilszybalski 7y ago

I once worked for a startup where we attempted this, in a sense. We built an app that let users take a picture of their bookshelf, we scanned the spines then digitized your "Shelfie". Our pitch was that we would give you the ebook of the print book that you own either for free or at a deep discount. We built a pretty complex recommendations engine on top of this and quite frankly, it worked really well. Simplified, if you have actual photos of bookshelves it's easy to start building recommendations. Person a read a,b,c, person b also read a,b,c, however, person a read e,f so maybe person b would also like e and f. The main issue is that publishers are archaic and building a sustainable revenue model against that is a challenge.

heroprotagonist 7y ago

Honestly, I have been feeling that the integration with Kindle, and Amazon in general, is what killed it for me. They took an audience of bibliophiles (and their ratings) and expanded it to the mass market users, encouraging them to star and comment on what they just read. What I'd really like is more access to the data and filtering mechanisms to try to build recommendations for myself. Example: Find the highest rated books that I haven't read in the Fantasy category, as rated by an audience of people who have rated at least 7 out of 10 books from a list I provide with a score of 4 or higher, and who have never rated a Twilight book with a 3 or higher. And if that doesn't work, maybe I tweak it a bit. Build a score threshold for excluding reviews from people based on other criteria about things I don't like. The point is that the data would help make the decisions.. Of course, that won't happen because of privacy concerns. With all the data locked up it means only Amazon can do it, and they're failing at it.

OJFord 7y ago
> Find the highest rated books that I haven't read in the Fantasy category, as rated by an audience of people who have rated at least 7 out of 10 books from a list I provide with a score of 4 or higher, and who have never rated a Twilight book with a 3 or higher. People in many different jobs use Excel and SQL databases - I wonder if enough to make 'power user' but mass market apps with that sort of interface.

blondin 7y ago

oh it's like youtube then? broken but way too big to wake a competitor.

jasonvorhe 7y ago

I don't think this is actually working world wide, my Good Reads account isn't aware of anything I purchase via my Kindle, let alone share my reviews or reading status.

Marsymars 7y ago

> And, frankly, the kindle is the only platform that matters, it likely has 95%+ of the ereader market. I have trouble finding up-to-date sources, but Googling has some out-of-date data indicating Kindle in the mid-80s for American marketshare and mid-50s for global marketshare. Personally, I've found Kindle and Kobo ereaders to be broadly equivalent from a hardware perspective. Kindle has better integration with the Amazon ecosystem, while Kobo has better support for DRM-free formats and better integration with local libraries. Ebooks that Amazon and Kobo offer also seem to be broadly equivalent in selection and price. (And Kobo will pricematch Amazon, or anyone else.) Largest different I've noticed are audiobooks that are exclusive to one or the other, with Audible having more of those, but also being more expensive than Kobo's audiobook service.