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Does anyone know when one travels to China, is the iCloud data entirely compromised by Chinese access? For example is it all synched?

by 29_29 7y ago

Despegar 7y ago
Apple has already publicly said in court filings, and under threat of perjury, that they don't make any exceptions for China. From Apple's filing [1]: >Finally, the government attempts to disclaim the obvious international implications of its demand, asserting that any pressure to hand over the same software to foreign agents “flows from [Apple’s] decision to do business in foreign countries . . . .” Opp. 26. Contrary to the government’s misleading statistics (Opp. 26), which had to do with lawful process and did not compel the creation of software that undermines the security of its users, Apple has never built a back door of any kind into iOS, or otherwise made data stored on the iPhone or in iCloud more technically accessible to any country’s government. See Dkt. 16-28 [Apple Inc., Privacy, Gov’t Info. Requests]; Federighi Decl. ¶¶ 6–7. The government is wrong in asserting that Apple made “special accommodations” for China (Opp. 26), as Apple uses the same security protocols everywhere in the world and follows the same standards for responding to law enforcement requests. See Federighi Decl. ¶ 5. and a declaration from Craig Federighi personally [2]: >Apple uses the same security protocols everywhere in the world. >Apple has never made user data, whether stored on the iPhone or in iCloud, more technologically accessible to any country's government. We believe any such access is too dangerous to allow. Apple has also not provided any government with its proprietary iOS source code. While governmental agencies in various countries, including the United States, perform regulatory reviews of new iPhone releases, all that Apple provides in those circumstances is an unmodified iPhone device. >It is my understanding that Apple has never worked with any government agency from any country to create a "backdoor" in any of our products and services. >I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States of America that the foregoing is true and correct. When China wants something from iCloud they do it the same way that law enforcement does it everywhere in the world, which is through Apple. I've seen a number of bad faith claims about this over the years, especially from Alex Stamos on Twitter. [1] https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2762131/C-D-Cal-16-Cm-00010-Dckt-000177-000-Filed-2016.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2762131/C-D-Cal-1... [2] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2762118-Federighi-Decl-Executed.html#document/p1 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2762118-Federighi-De...
- 29_29 7y ago
  I opened this question up for broader discussion (and so its searchable) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20904857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20904857 You may want to post this fantastic reply there so others can find it better in the future.
- lern_too_spel 7y ago
  Why are you posting statements from 2016 when Apple handed over its iCloud encryption keys to a Chinese company in 2018? That's dangerously misleading and puts users at risk. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/02/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-apple-in-china/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/02/5-things-you-...
lern_too_spel 7y ago
If you have an iMessage chat that includes any Chinese user, you should consider it compromised. Whoever controls the key server with the users' public keys can eavesdrop on the conversations. For Chinese users, that is a Chinese company controlled by the Chinese government. For non-Chinese users, that is Apple. https://threatpost.com/apple-imessage-open-to-man-in-the-middle-spoofing-attacks/102610/ https://threatpost.com/apple-imessage-open-to-man-in-the-mid... As far as whether your iCloud data becomes readable by the Chinese government if you travel to China, that is a reasonable fear and one that Apple should address. It is possible, even likely, that the great firewall blocks iCloud servers outside of China, which would mean the only way to access your data would be to have it available on servers that the Chinese government can also access. https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2018/02/24/chinese-icloud-users-warned-the-government-could-access-their-data/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2018/02/24/chine...

Does anyone know when one travels to China, is the iCloud data entirely compromised by Chinese access? For example is it all synched?

by 29_29 7y ago

Does anyone know when one travels to China, is the iCloud data entirely compromised by Chinese access? For example is it all synched?

Despegar 7y ago

Apple has already publicly said in court filings, and under threat of perjury, that they don't make any exceptions for China. From Apple's filing [1]: >Finally, the government attempts to disclaim the obvious international implications of its demand, asserting that any pressure to hand over the same software to foreign agents “flows from [Apple’s] decision to do business in foreign countries . . . .” Opp. 26. Contrary to the government’s misleading statistics (Opp. 26), which had to do with lawful process and did not compel the creation of software that undermines the security of its users, Apple has never built a back door of any kind into iOS, or otherwise made data stored on the iPhone or in iCloud more technically accessible to any country’s government. See Dkt. 16-28 [Apple Inc., Privacy, Gov’t Info. Requests]; Federighi Decl. ¶¶ 6–7. The government is wrong in asserting that Apple made “special accommodations” for China (Opp. 26), as Apple uses the same security protocols everywhere in the world and follows the same standards for responding to law enforcement requests. See Federighi Decl. ¶ 5. and a declaration from Craig Federighi personally [2]: >Apple uses the same security protocols everywhere in the world. >Apple has never made user data, whether stored on the iPhone or in iCloud, more technologically accessible to any country's government. We believe any such access is too dangerous to allow. Apple has also not provided any government with its proprietary iOS source code. While governmental agencies in various countries, including the United States, perform regulatory reviews of new iPhone releases, all that Apple provides in those circumstances is an unmodified iPhone device. >It is my understanding that Apple has never worked with any government agency from any country to create a "backdoor" in any of our products and services. >I declare under penalty of perjury under the laws of the United States of America that the foregoing is true and correct. When China wants something from iCloud they do it the same way that law enforcement does it everywhere in the world, which is through Apple. I've seen a number of bad faith claims about this over the years, especially from Alex Stamos on Twitter. [1] https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2762131/C-D-Cal-16-Cm-00010-Dckt-000177-000-Filed-2016.pdf https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2762131/C-D-Cal-1... [2] https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2762118-Federighi-Decl-Executed.html#document/p1 https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2762118-Federighi-De...

29_29 7y ago
I opened this question up for broader discussion (and so its searchable) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20904857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20904857 You may want to post this fantastic reply there so others can find it better in the future.
lern_too_spel 7y ago
Why are you posting statements from 2016 when Apple handed over its iCloud encryption keys to a Chinese company in 2018? That's dangerously misleading and puts users at risk. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/02/5-things-you-need-to-know-about-apple-in-china/ https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2018/02/5-things-you-...

lern_too_spel 7y ago

If you have an iMessage chat that includes any Chinese user, you should consider it compromised. Whoever controls the key server with the users' public keys can eavesdrop on the conversations. For Chinese users, that is a Chinese company controlled by the Chinese government. For non-Chinese users, that is Apple. https://threatpost.com/apple-imessage-open-to-man-in-the-middle-spoofing-attacks/102610/ https://threatpost.com/apple-imessage-open-to-man-in-the-mid... As far as whether your iCloud data becomes readable by the Chinese government if you travel to China, that is a reasonable fear and one that Apple should address. It is possible, even likely, that the great firewall blocks iCloud servers outside of China, which would mean the only way to access your data would be to have it available on servers that the Chinese government can also access. https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2018/02/24/chinese-icloud-users-warned-the-government-could-access-their-data/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawoollacott/2018/02/24/chine...