6 ms·

I don't think this current trend demonizing everybody who ever associated with Epstein is good. All it is achieving showing everyone that do not associate with

by qazpot 7y ago

I don't think this current trend demonizing everybody who ever associated with Epstein is good. All it is achieving showing everyone that do not associate with felons. Don't hire felons. Don't even shake hands with them in a social gathering.

VMG 7y ago
That lesson is absolutely appropriate for many instances. Especially if the individual did not receive appropriate punishment for their crime in the justice system and shows no remorse. Forgiveness is appropriate if the offender has learned a lesson and changed their ways.
DanBC 7y ago
Not all felons and not all contact are equal. I think it's reasonable to suggest that you should avoid taking money from felons who used that money to rape children.
joshypants 7y ago
Please don't act like taking money from pedophile sex trafficker billionaires to fund your institution and parlaying that access to secure their investment in your personal projects is equivalent to whatever you're talking about!
metacontent 7y ago
I think you miss spelled "pedophile" and "underage sex trafficker".
hos234 7y ago
It's hard to say whether its good or bad right now. Give it a few years. Social norms are changing very quickly these days in ways no one expected. Look at the polls on acceptance of gay marriage prior to 2000 and today. There is a big shift, not just in the US. Hard to believe such shifts can happen in such time scales, if you read old sociology text books. What is different today is how connected society is and how fast social pressure can build up. And thats having effects people haven't seen before - good and bad.
- im3w1l 7y ago
  Before, social pressure could build up in many different ways. Today we have an enlightened elite deciding which pressures are glorious activism and which pressures are despicable harassment. Strengthening some movements and crushing others. They have done good things. They have also done bad things. If I said what bad things, I would have a target on my back, so I wont. But suffice to say that there are upsides and downsides. People are more controlled than they have ever been and thats why rapid shifts in opinion can be effected.
- qazpot 7y ago
  I agree, the things that are happening as the society goes more connected seems very chaotic and unpredictable.
dls2016 7y ago
It’s does not achieve that at all. How is there an analogy between Epstein being welcomed back into polite society and hiring a low level drug felon at a living wage? Not even the same ballpark.
- matthewmarkus 7y ago
  Wokeness paradox (2013 Edition): Can Ito work toward the "inclusion of marginalized individuals" while simultaneously discriminating against those with criminal records? If Epstein hadn't recidivated, would Anand Giridharadas have bestowed a "Disobedience Award" on Ito for breaking the rules at MIT to rehabilitate an ex-felon? Is a low-level drug felony "better than" soliciting prostitution (the charges on Epstein's public record)? What if the drug felony involves selling to minors?
  - dls2016 7y ago
    They’re vastly different if you apply a class-based analysis, yes. An alleged billionaire abusing minors while palling around with heads of state compared to someone with a public defender? And I don’t even understand how one can solicit prostitution from someone who cannot legally consent.
    - matthewmarkus 7y ago
      A "class-based analysis" implies you don't care about the crime but the identity of the criminal. If so, then why the gnashing of teeth now? Wouldn't the logical conclusion of that analysis be that MIT should not take donations at all? I don't understand how one can solicit prostitution from someone who cannot legally consent either. But Ito played no roll in laying those laughable charges.
      - dls2016 7y ago
        It’s a straw man to suggest I don’t care about the crime. I would argue that our current system attempts to be “class blind” at various steps (notably, not when setting bail) but fails miserably. This case is a perfect example. Same with the lack of prosecutions from banking scandals after 2008 crash. As for why the gnashing of teeth now? I know I’ve personally been aware of the details of Epstein’s case for years, but you sound like a crank when you show people photos of a pedophile’s weird temple and rant about all of the names in his flight logs. Why now for Cosby? Or Weinstein? Perhaps it’s finally in the air that these men should be held accountable, perhaps to an even higher standard, for their abuse of power. As for university funding... don’t get me started! Also can we start examining Kissinger and the other criminals employed by Harvard? The ivy institutions have decades old ties to the intelligence community. (Though it does sort of make sense to learn about the history of US plunder throughout the world from the people on the front lines... ok I’m starting to sound like a crank...)

by qazpot 7y ago

VMG 7y ago

That lesson is absolutely appropriate for many instances. Especially if the individual did not receive appropriate punishment for their crime in the justice system and shows no remorse. Forgiveness is appropriate if the offender has learned a lesson and changed their ways.

DanBC 7y ago

Not all felons and not all contact are equal. I think it's reasonable to suggest that you should avoid taking money from felons who used that money to rape children.

joshypants 7y ago

Please don't act like taking money from pedophile sex trafficker billionaires to fund your institution and parlaying that access to secure their investment in your personal projects is equivalent to whatever you're talking about!

metacontent 7y ago

I think you miss spelled "pedophile" and "underage sex trafficker".

hos234 7y ago

It's hard to say whether its good or bad right now. Give it a few years. Social norms are changing very quickly these days in ways no one expected. Look at the polls on acceptance of gay marriage prior to 2000 and today. There is a big shift, not just in the US. Hard to believe such shifts can happen in such time scales, if you read old sociology text books. What is different today is how connected society is and how fast social pressure can build up. And thats having effects people haven't seen before - good and bad.

im3w1l 7y ago
Before, social pressure could build up in many different ways. Today we have an enlightened elite deciding which pressures are glorious activism and which pressures are despicable harassment. Strengthening some movements and crushing others. They have done good things. They have also done bad things. If I said what bad things, I would have a target on my back, so I wont. But suffice to say that there are upsides and downsides. People are more controlled than they have ever been and thats why rapid shifts in opinion can be effected.
qazpot 7y ago
I agree, the things that are happening as the society goes more connected seems very chaotic and unpredictable.

dls2016 7y ago

It’s does not achieve that at all. How is there an analogy between Epstein being welcomed back into polite society and hiring a low level drug felon at a living wage? Not even the same ballpark.

matthewmarkus 7y ago
Wokeness paradox (2013 Edition): Can Ito work toward the "inclusion of marginalized individuals" while simultaneously discriminating against those with criminal records? If Epstein hadn't recidivated, would Anand Giridharadas have bestowed a "Disobedience Award" on Ito for breaking the rules at MIT to rehabilitate an ex-felon? Is a low-level drug felony "better than" soliciting prostitution (the charges on Epstein's public record)? What if the drug felony involves selling to minors?
- dls2016 7y ago
  They’re vastly different if you apply a class-based analysis, yes. An alleged billionaire abusing minors while palling around with heads of state compared to someone with a public defender? And I don’t even understand how one can solicit prostitution from someone who cannot legally consent.
  - matthewmarkus 7y ago
    A "class-based analysis" implies you don't care about the crime but the identity of the criminal. If so, then why the gnashing of teeth now? Wouldn't the logical conclusion of that analysis be that MIT should not take donations at all? I don't understand how one can solicit prostitution from someone who cannot legally consent either. But Ito played no roll in laying those laughable charges.
    - dls2016 7y ago
      It’s a straw man to suggest I don’t care about the crime. I would argue that our current system attempts to be “class blind” at various steps (notably, not when setting bail) but fails miserably. This case is a perfect example. Same with the lack of prosecutions from banking scandals after 2008 crash. As for why the gnashing of teeth now? I know I’ve personally been aware of the details of Epstein’s case for years, but you sound like a crank when you show people photos of a pedophile’s weird temple and rant about all of the names in his flight logs. Why now for Cosby? Or Weinstein? Perhaps it’s finally in the air that these men should be held accountable, perhaps to an even higher standard, for their abuse of power. As for university funding... don’t get me started! Also can we start examining Kissinger and the other criminals employed by Harvard? The ivy institutions have decades old ties to the intelligence community. (Though it does sort of make sense to learn about the history of US plunder throughout the world from the people on the front lines... ok I’m starting to sound like a crank...)