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Rather than just wish rich people would change, it's worth considering why they want home prices out of reach. One possible answer: they want to limit who they

by xamuel 7y ago

Rather than just wish rich people would change, it's worth considering why they want home prices out of reach. One possible answer: they want to limit who they live nextdoor to. This sounds dickish, but, overall, on average, it serves as a rough proxy for "not living next to hillbillies who shoot fireworks all night", etc. As a thought experiment, imagine that as part of the housing solution, your kitchen and one of your closets are going to be converted into extremely cheap housing for new neighbors. You don't get a say in who moves in. You might luck out and get instant friends. Or you might get neighbors from vastly different walks of life and, because you're such an open-minded and enlightened person, you will become good friends with them, maybe even live some sort of hilarious good-natured "opposites meet" sitcom life with them. But, since you won't have any option to kick these neighbors out, also think: are there any ways this scenario could possibly go wrong? For example, say one of your new neighbors is an outspoken homosexual, and the other is an intolerant redneck. Then, despite yourself being perfectly tolerant and reasonable, trouble is inevitable. And you're going to be right there in the middle of it. Assuming you absolutely want to avoid a scenario like the latter, how can you accomplish it? One option would be to outlaw such extreme people as in that example, but that's obviously a no-go. Or people could be segregated based on various criteria, but that's pretty much a no-go too. So it's a real head-scratcher. It's currently 'solved' (poorly) by using housing prices as a proxy for class. This is a lousy solution, but if you're going to get rid of it, you need to be conscious that it is a solution to something, and you need to replace it with some other solution.

inetknght 7y ago
> One possible answer: they want to limit who they live nextdoor to. This sounds dickish, but, overall, on average, it serves as a rough proxy for "not living next to hillbillies who shoot fireworks all night", etc. That's a possible answer, sure. But I find that "the merely poor" and "hillbillies" often don't really overlap much. The merely poor can't afford their own home. "Hillbillies" generally live in the middle of nowhere and generally don't want to live in the city anyway. There's far too many people who'd try to hell "hillbillies" how they can and can't live. > For example, say one of your new neighbors is an outspoken homosexual, and the other is an intolerant redneck. Then, despite yourself being perfectly tolerant and reasonable, trouble is inevitable. And you're going to be right there in the middle of it. I don't see the problem. Outspoken homosexual can do what they want as long as it doesn't involve me. Intolerant redneck can do and say what they want as long as it doesn't involve me. > Assuming you absolutely want to avoid a scenario like the latter, how can you accomplish it? Here's a thought: why should I be permitted to hate my lawful neighbors? If I don't like what they do, then use the force of law to force them to change. If the force of law doesn't exist for the change I want, then perhaps I am in the wrong.
- xamuel 7y ago
  Careful of mixing up cause-and-effect. Plenty of hillbillies would love to live on the beautiful California west coast next to the beach, if they could afford it. Anyway, hillbillies was an obvious stand-in for all sorts of bad neighbors, whether that be the guy with the constantly barking dog, the drunk, the guy always playing his loud subwoofer, etc. >as it doesn't involve me When your neighbors are shouting at each other with you in the middle, it involves you. >why should I be permitted to hate my lawful neighbors? You absolutely shouldn't, for we should all love our neighbors. But you should absolutely be allowed to hate your neighbors' actions. >use the force of law to force them to change Have you ever dealt with invoking city noise ordinances? It's a long, tiresome process, and meanwhile your neighbors you're invoking them against aren't going to be too happy with you. Take it from me, I grew up poor and lived in crappy neighborhoods. Playing outside as a 6-year-old, it was routine for the neighborhood drunk to yell slurs at me and my siblings. First day we moved in, Dad called the cops on that guy, and the cops basically chuckled at my Dad over the phone. "Welcome to Los Angeles, sir."
- mcguire 7y ago
  "I don't see the problem. Outspoken homosexual can do what they want as long as it doesn't involve me. Intolerant redneck can do and say what they want as long as it doesn't involve me." And if they get into arguments at the breakfast table? I had a friend once who had a married couple as roommates. They didn't get along. The weekly RPG session was interrupted by arriving police a couple of times. Problem finally solved by my friend moving to a single-family dwelling.

by xamuel 7y ago

inetknght 7y ago

> One possible answer: they want to limit who they live nextdoor to. This sounds dickish, but, overall, on average, it serves as a rough proxy for "not living next to hillbillies who shoot fireworks all night", etc. That's a possible answer, sure. But I find that "the merely poor" and "hillbillies" often don't really overlap much. The merely poor can't afford their own home. "Hillbillies" generally live in the middle of nowhere and generally don't want to live in the city anyway. There's far too many people who'd try to hell "hillbillies" how they can and can't live. > For example, say one of your new neighbors is an outspoken homosexual, and the other is an intolerant redneck. Then, despite yourself being perfectly tolerant and reasonable, trouble is inevitable. And you're going to be right there in the middle of it. I don't see the problem. Outspoken homosexual can do what they want as long as it doesn't involve me. Intolerant redneck can do and say what they want as long as it doesn't involve me. > Assuming you absolutely want to avoid a scenario like the latter, how can you accomplish it? Here's a thought: why should I be permitted to hate my lawful neighbors? If I don't like what they do, then use the force of law to force them to change. If the force of law doesn't exist for the change I want, then perhaps I am in the wrong.

xamuel 7y ago
Careful of mixing up cause-and-effect. Plenty of hillbillies would love to live on the beautiful California west coast next to the beach, if they could afford it. Anyway, hillbillies was an obvious stand-in for all sorts of bad neighbors, whether that be the guy with the constantly barking dog, the drunk, the guy always playing his loud subwoofer, etc. >as it doesn't involve me When your neighbors are shouting at each other with you in the middle, it involves you. >why should I be permitted to hate my lawful neighbors? You absolutely shouldn't, for we should all love our neighbors. But you should absolutely be allowed to hate your neighbors' actions. >use the force of law to force them to change Have you ever dealt with invoking city noise ordinances? It's a long, tiresome process, and meanwhile your neighbors you're invoking them against aren't going to be too happy with you. Take it from me, I grew up poor and lived in crappy neighborhoods. Playing outside as a 6-year-old, it was routine for the neighborhood drunk to yell slurs at me and my siblings. First day we moved in, Dad called the cops on that guy, and the cops basically chuckled at my Dad over the phone. "Welcome to Los Angeles, sir."
mcguire 7y ago
"I don't see the problem. Outspoken homosexual can do what they want as long as it doesn't involve me. Intolerant redneck can do and say what they want as long as it doesn't involve me." And if they get into arguments at the breakfast table? I had a friend once who had a married couple as roommates. They didn't get along. The weekly RPG session was interrupted by arriving police a couple of times. Problem finally solved by my friend moving to a single-family dwelling.