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Didn't bother reading the article since most comments say it's worthless. I expected a talk about measured brain activity. I was raised a catholic, and the mos

Didn't bother reading the article since most comments say it's worthless. I expected a talk about measured brain activity. I was raised a catholic, and the most prevalent feelings I got out of that was paranoia and fear. They teach you there's an omnipresent, omniscient, all-powerful being judging your every thought 24/7, for all your life. He's personally interested in you, he says he loves you dearly, but for some reason he won't speak to you at all. Only his priests know his will. You can fool people, but you can't fool this being, and worst of all, you are already in his debt since before you were born. Displease him and being skinned alive by a drug cartel would feel merciful compared to your eternity in hell. Fortunately, it was common sense, knowledge and the numerous contradictions, rather than fear, that opened my eyes out of religion. It took me years to cope with the sequels of indoctrination, but I'm happier and more serene as an atheist now. In my book, religions that demand conversion are thinly-veiled attempts at brainwashing. Religions like Buddhism I find more benign. Edit: went and read it anyway, and despite the clickbait title, I agree with the subtitle: "it's like going off a drug."

gremlinsinc 7y ago
I agree w/ the parts that we aren't belief-less heathens. I'm still inspired and awestruck as an exmormon/agnostic when I see a beautiful space image or sunset. Or just watching my kids experience new things for the first time. I find I'm more spiritual as an agnostic than I was before losing religion, spiritual to me is just feeling inspired or 'touched' by a movie or book or event in my life. It's about honoring the small parts of life because we don't know what comes after. I still believe an afterlife could exist, but it isn't controlled by a deity, it'd just be energy being re-used which happens all the time in nature.
- ASalazarMX 7y ago
  > I still believe an afterlife could exist, but it isn't controlled by a deity, it'd just be energy being re-used which happens all the time in nature. It certainly would be amazing, but I chose to take a more pragmatic approach. Since we can't disprove the afterlife, I live my life as if it's the only one. That doesn't mean living feverishly, just enjoying the moment more.
  - gremlinsinc 7y ago
    I take a ... can't know so don't worry --stoic'ish point of view. I don't worry or fret about it.. and I've replaced religion w/ some teachings from stoicism --mainly the parts about focusing on the fact that one day I'll cease breathing. Once you get over the fear of that fact -- there's peace in trying to "live for today because tomorrow you may die". My biggest fears/regret about that realization really is knowing I'll miss out on so much life and experiences from my kids and someday grandkids, and I'm still holding out that immortality tech gets some momentum... lol Don't think I want to live forever, but if I can see FTL and first contact -- I'll be happy. I also try not to focus on what isn't important.. i.e. what I have control over. I don't have control over afterlife, death, and how/when it'll happen so doesn't matter if we worry. Taking away the things that don't matter from our worries column frees up the stress centers in the brain. Now if only I could run a stress-free freelance dev business.
lcall 7y ago
As a religious person, I wouldn't personally teach the fear business that you describe. Choices matter, and I believe He has provided us consequences, as well as opportunity for complete forgiveness and tremendous opportunity for learning and growth, with family ties and other benefits that can go beyond the grave. Details at http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854587400.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854587400.html (a simple site). (Maybe I should have made my other related comment, which is elsewhere on the page, as a reply to yours instead. In case it is of interest.)
- ASalazarMX 7y ago
  It's not that fear is purposefully taught. Your first indoctrinators are your parents, and they love you, they hardly would harm you. It's just that indoctrination starts even before your identity and common sense develop. You grow up thinking crime thought and the thought police are real, and that really messes with your sense of security. I suppose different kids internalize that in different ways. For me, it was crazy believing I was being watched and judged all the time. Yes, there is good that happens for religious reasons, but the bad that usually comes along is an expensive price to pay in exchange. People can do good in this world without supernatural incentives.
  - lcall 7y ago
    Regardless of what humans do, the question is: is God real? I have learned for myself, and now know. Anyone can if they choose to read the Book of Mormon and put it to the test: God makes a clear promise in it (in the last chapter). That gives me great help in life to deal with things and do better. (Commandments are not intended as any excuse to quickly punish us, but are like guardrails on the highway, but He never forces our minds: we can choose, which allows us to learn and grow. I have seen that, across generations.) (Edit: I am also sure I didn't make it up in my mind. Details at http://lukecall.net http://lukecall.net .)
zzo38computer 7y ago
"It took me years to cope with the sequels of indoctrination, but I'm happier and more serene as an atheist now." Then that is good that you are atheist now. "In my book, religions that demand conversion are thinly-veiled attempts at brainwashing." Unfortunately, there is too much of such thing; however, it isn't 100% involved with brainwashing. And, yes it is good if you do not have such demands, like you give an example of Buddhism. So are some Christians, but too many (at least, many of the ones which they say a lot so that a lot of people hear of it) aren't that benign unfortunately. But many Christians are good, too. Also, some atheists are religious, too.
apta 7y ago
> that opened my eyes out of religion Out of Catholicism perhaps, unless people studied each and every religion out there, they can't make this claim.
- ykevinator 7y ago
  They can make the claim because it's disbelief in the supernatural, not one flavor of supernatural.
  - ASalazarMX 7y ago
    Late reply, but this is it. Once you analyze a religion and its patterns for indoctrination, you find the same patterns in others. I was raised a Catholic, but lived in a city with persistent derivatives trying to convert you to, like Jehovah's Witnesses, Christians, Mormons... Better yet, publicly declaring yourself as an atheist means "possible convert" for some evangelists, so I was also invited to join cults like Dianetics, Satanism and Wicca. Surprisingly, Satanism or Wicca felt like less-aggresive forms of make-believe, more fantasy than religion. In my experience, every religion/cult that demands conversions follows this simple recipe: 1. You must unquestionably and absolutely commit to the god(s) described in this book(s). 2. This god will disproportionately reward you if you obey his orders. 3. This god will disproportionately punish you if you disobey his orders. 4. This god can only give you orders through a few middle-men. 5. The middle-men speak for god, thus are always right and should not be questioned. 6. Sometimes, god will need money or labor. Give it to the middle-men. 7. Collect your reward/punishment after death. 8. Suicide is cheating. 9. IMPORTANT: God will disproportionately punish people who don't even know about him, so it's your sacred duty to save them by converting them to this religion.
    - lcall 7y ago
      I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and those do not represent my beliefs. Quickly I can identify at least #s 3, 4, 5, and especially the 1st 1/2 of #9, and other phrasing, which I do not believe. Maybe more. And #1 is an individual choice after we learn, and He is capable of being both just and merciful, since after all, we believe we are His children, not objects of spite. Everyone will have a chance eventually to choose, fairly, what level of blessings they want from Him, and whether to live accordingly. And yes, our choices do have consequences, but we will all have a fair chance to repent (change our ways).
ykevinator 7y ago
Exact same, I was interest in the actual brain changes not the "you know like brain or whatever"

gremlinsinc 7y ago

I agree w/ the parts that we aren't belief-less heathens. I'm still inspired and awestruck as an exmormon/agnostic when I see a beautiful space image or sunset. Or just watching my kids experience new things for the first time. I find I'm more spiritual as an agnostic than I was before losing religion, spiritual to me is just feeling inspired or 'touched' by a movie or book or event in my life. It's about honoring the small parts of life because we don't know what comes after. I still believe an afterlife could exist, but it isn't controlled by a deity, it'd just be energy being re-used which happens all the time in nature.

ASalazarMX 7y ago
> I still believe an afterlife could exist, but it isn't controlled by a deity, it'd just be energy being re-used which happens all the time in nature. It certainly would be amazing, but I chose to take a more pragmatic approach. Since we can't disprove the afterlife, I live my life as if it's the only one. That doesn't mean living feverishly, just enjoying the moment more.
- gremlinsinc 7y ago
  I take a ... can't know so don't worry --stoic'ish point of view. I don't worry or fret about it.. and I've replaced religion w/ some teachings from stoicism --mainly the parts about focusing on the fact that one day I'll cease breathing. Once you get over the fear of that fact -- there's peace in trying to "live for today because tomorrow you may die". My biggest fears/regret about that realization really is knowing I'll miss out on so much life and experiences from my kids and someday grandkids, and I'm still holding out that immortality tech gets some momentum... lol Don't think I want to live forever, but if I can see FTL and first contact -- I'll be happy. I also try not to focus on what isn't important.. i.e. what I have control over. I don't have control over afterlife, death, and how/when it'll happen so doesn't matter if we worry. Taking away the things that don't matter from our worries column frees up the stress centers in the brain. Now if only I could run a stress-free freelance dev business.

lcall 7y ago

As a religious person, I wouldn't personally teach the fear business that you describe. Choices matter, and I believe He has provided us consequences, as well as opportunity for complete forgiveness and tremendous opportunity for learning and growth, with family ties and other benefits that can go beyond the grave. Details at http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854587400.html http://lukecall.net/e-9223372036854587400.html (a simple site). (Maybe I should have made my other related comment, which is elsewhere on the page, as a reply to yours instead. In case it is of interest.)

ASalazarMX 7y ago
It's not that fear is purposefully taught. Your first indoctrinators are your parents, and they love you, they hardly would harm you. It's just that indoctrination starts even before your identity and common sense develop. You grow up thinking crime thought and the thought police are real, and that really messes with your sense of security. I suppose different kids internalize that in different ways. For me, it was crazy believing I was being watched and judged all the time. Yes, there is good that happens for religious reasons, but the bad that usually comes along is an expensive price to pay in exchange. People can do good in this world without supernatural incentives.
- lcall 7y ago
  Regardless of what humans do, the question is: is God real? I have learned for myself, and now know. Anyone can if they choose to read the Book of Mormon and put it to the test: God makes a clear promise in it (in the last chapter). That gives me great help in life to deal with things and do better. (Commandments are not intended as any excuse to quickly punish us, but are like guardrails on the highway, but He never forces our minds: we can choose, which allows us to learn and grow. I have seen that, across generations.) (Edit: I am also sure I didn't make it up in my mind. Details at http://lukecall.net http://lukecall.net .)

zzo38computer 7y ago

"It took me years to cope with the sequels of indoctrination, but I'm happier and more serene as an atheist now." Then that is good that you are atheist now. "In my book, religions that demand conversion are thinly-veiled attempts at brainwashing." Unfortunately, there is too much of such thing; however, it isn't 100% involved with brainwashing. And, yes it is good if you do not have such demands, like you give an example of Buddhism. So are some Christians, but too many (at least, many of the ones which they say a lot so that a lot of people hear of it) aren't that benign unfortunately. But many Christians are good, too. Also, some atheists are religious, too.

apta 7y ago

> that opened my eyes out of religion Out of Catholicism perhaps, unless people studied each and every religion out there, they can't make this claim.

ykevinator 7y ago
They can make the claim because it's disbelief in the supernatural, not one flavor of supernatural.
- ASalazarMX 7y ago
  Late reply, but this is it. Once you analyze a religion and its patterns for indoctrination, you find the same patterns in others. I was raised a Catholic, but lived in a city with persistent derivatives trying to convert you to, like Jehovah's Witnesses, Christians, Mormons... Better yet, publicly declaring yourself as an atheist means "possible convert" for some evangelists, so I was also invited to join cults like Dianetics, Satanism and Wicca. Surprisingly, Satanism or Wicca felt like less-aggresive forms of make-believe, more fantasy than religion. In my experience, every religion/cult that demands conversions follows this simple recipe: 1. You must unquestionably and absolutely commit to the god(s) described in this book(s). 2. This god will disproportionately reward you if you obey his orders. 3. This god will disproportionately punish you if you disobey his orders. 4. This god can only give you orders through a few middle-men. 5. The middle-men speak for god, thus are always right and should not be questioned. 6. Sometimes, god will need money or labor. Give it to the middle-men. 7. Collect your reward/punishment after death. 8. Suicide is cheating. 9. IMPORTANT: God will disproportionately punish people who don't even know about him, so it's your sacred duty to save them by converting them to this religion.
  - lcall 7y ago
    I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and those do not represent my beliefs. Quickly I can identify at least #s 3, 4, 5, and especially the 1st 1/2 of #9, and other phrasing, which I do not believe. Maybe more. And #1 is an individual choice after we learn, and He is capable of being both just and merciful, since after all, we believe we are His children, not objects of spite. Everyone will have a chance eventually to choose, fairly, what level of blessings they want from Him, and whether to live accordingly. And yes, our choices do have consequences, but we will all have a fair chance to repent (change our ways).

ykevinator 7y ago

Exact same, I was interest in the actual brain changes not the "you know like brain or whatever"