5 ms·

eh, coming from a blue-collar job Im seriously inclined to disagree. shops with questions are good shops. questions mean learning. >there are no true adults

eh, coming from a blue-collar job Im seriously inclined to disagree. shops with questions are good shops. questions mean learning. >there are no true adults in the room at any organization. Im an engine mechanic by trade, and ive worked in shops with no adults. theres no OSHA "days free" sign because management is well aware that people are getting hurt and doesnt need to call attention to it. These are shops with a high percentage of "fatal 4" accidents: flying objects, swinging objects, rolling objects and lack of PPE. disability rosters are usually 3-4 people deep. guards on machines are routinely off, or if present, dangling by a bolt. your senior-most tech is a temp. Most of the people you work with can remember at least one amputation in the past year. The absolute worst Ive seen had a mechanical maintenance tech with 3 missing fingers (crushed that year) and a manager with a bone growth stimulator on his arm from a mangling accident at a metal lathe he wasnt qualified to operate.

theandrewbailey 7y ago
> Im an engine mechanic by trade, and ive worked in shops with no adults. For white collar jobs, that seems to be the rule rather than the exception. Dilbert wouldn't be as popular otherwise.
- GuiA 7y ago
  That’s because there’s no amputation risk in white collar jobs. There’s the risk of sinking the business by doing dumb things, but that takes a while, and many execs have made a career out of hopping from company to company, collecting giant paychecks and not sticking around long enough to have to deal with the consequences of their idiocy.
  - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
    There's little amputation risk. But I nearly got my foot crushed by a 600 pound steel desk (in a box, left where it could fall) right outside my cube. Thank God the cart that had been used to move it saved me, literally by an inch.
    - MegaButts 7y ago
      I'm not clear how the cart saved you? How did the box fall, what objects were where, what was your relative position? I'm just trying to recreate what happened in my head and not getting there.
      - hinkley 7y ago
        If part of the box remained on the cart, then there's an air gap, and that might put you into broken or bruised bone territory instead of crushing damage.
        MegaButts 7y ago
        So someone dropped a 600 pound box so close to a worker the only thing that saved him is the vertical air gap provided by the cart? I thought he meant the box fell an inch next to his foot, not above it.
        hinkley 7y ago
        Plausible, but then the bit about the cart is superfluous information. Might as well say, "Someone dropped a box an inch from my foot." I don't know the story-telling skills of GGP so your guess is as good as mine.
      - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
        The box got unloaded off the cart outside my cube. It got left standing on edge, which is not how one should leave 600 pounds of steel. (This was a kit, not an assembled desk, so "on edge" was maybe eight inches wide.) When it fell, the cardboard box caught the cart, but none of the steel inside did. The steel then proceeded to slowly rip the box. The net result was that this 600 pounds got slowly put on my foot, rather than slamming onto it. That was the difference between minutes of pain and months of rehab. (And, yeah, it falling may or may not have been my fault...)
        mjevans 7y ago
  - vonmoltke 7y ago
    > That’s because there’s no amputation risk in white collar jobs. In most white-collar jobs. My first white-collar job involved (among other things) probing live 270VDC circuits, overseeing tests in liquid-nitrogren-cooled chambers, and working in close proximity to live radiating antennas. Sure, I spent most of my time at my desk, but that was still ample opportunity for serious, permanent injury.
john_moscow 7y ago
Well, I can bet your shop's business model isn't raising hundreds of millions in capital while providing a below cost oil change service done by a team of 10 (5 of those being the CEO's buddies on administrative positions) based on the premise that one day the mechanics' labor will get automated and the company will instantly start making zillions per year.
hinkley 7y ago
I think it's machismo. In a room full of people white knuckling everything, nobody wants to be the 'baby' who calls for rational behavior. I see the same thing in white collar jobs, but the damage is harder to see. Physical and mental health rather than broken bones and lost limbs. There's no reason everyone should have to be a hero all the fucking time. But often the only way to fix it is if everyone refuses. Not saying unionize, but if everyone slows down to a sustainable pace then what can they do about it?
- birdyrooster 7y ago
  Futilely reorganize your business units repeatedly until it’s a Dead Sea and there is no distinction between working hard and slacking off. Edit: I see I cut too close to reality for some here and I want to apologize if you felt this sarcasm was off base but really I feel that my comments are indicative of reality and I am bringing something new to the conversation here.
- bmurphy1976 7y ago
  >There's no reason everyone should have to be a hero all the fucking time. But often the only way to fix it is if everyone refuses. Not saying unionize, but if everyone slows down to a sustainable pace then what can they do about it? Exactly what they did starting in the 70's and 80's, start shipping the jobs to someplace else. There's always somebody who is desperate. I'm not personally against trade with countries such as China, but it damn sure needs to be more accountable than it has been. Unfortunately I don't think the way we traditionally have unions in the states enough. We need a much larger group of people to stand up and demand a better system. We might need to have unions for entire industries ala some European countries, and even that might not be enough.
- mikhailfranco 7y ago
  It is a classic arms race, which is self-reinforcing and detrimental to all participants, but cannot be broken by local decisions. A rational group cannot break the trend, if the psycho alpha male co-worker still wants to fight for priority (and VP status). Even a union in one company cannot enforce anything, because anything that lowers productivity will destroy the company. Any union that has power across multiple companies ends in restrictive practices, anti-competitive behaviour, and barriers to entry to the workforce, where the psycho alpha male union boss calls the tune (mafia all over again). Then whole national industries die in the face of cut-throat international competition ...

theandrewbailey 7y ago

> Im an engine mechanic by trade, and ive worked in shops with no adults. For white collar jobs, that seems to be the rule rather than the exception. Dilbert wouldn't be as popular otherwise.

GuiA 7y ago
That’s because there’s no amputation risk in white collar jobs. There’s the risk of sinking the business by doing dumb things, but that takes a while, and many execs have made a career out of hopping from company to company, collecting giant paychecks and not sticking around long enough to have to deal with the consequences of their idiocy.
- AnimalMuppet 7y ago
  There's little amputation risk. But I nearly got my foot crushed by a 600 pound steel desk (in a box, left where it could fall) right outside my cube. Thank God the cart that had been used to move it saved me, literally by an inch.
  - MegaButts 7y ago
    I'm not clear how the cart saved you? How did the box fall, what objects were where, what was your relative position? I'm just trying to recreate what happened in my head and not getting there.
    - hinkley 7y ago
      If part of the box remained on the cart, then there's an air gap, and that might put you into broken or bruised bone territory instead of crushing damage.
      - MegaButts 7y ago
        So someone dropped a 600 pound box so close to a worker the only thing that saved him is the vertical air gap provided by the cart? I thought he meant the box fell an inch next to his foot, not above it.
        hinkley 7y ago
        Plausible, but then the bit about the cart is superfluous information. Might as well say, "Someone dropped a box an inch from my foot." I don't know the story-telling skills of GGP so your guess is as good as mine.
    - AnimalMuppet 7y ago
      The box got unloaded off the cart outside my cube. It got left standing on edge, which is not how one should leave 600 pounds of steel. (This was a kit, not an assembled desk, so "on edge" was maybe eight inches wide.) When it fell, the cardboard box caught the cart, but none of the steel inside did. The steel then proceeded to slowly rip the box. The net result was that this 600 pounds got slowly put on my foot, rather than slamming onto it. That was the difference between minutes of pain and months of rehab. (And, yeah, it falling may or may not have been my fault...)
      - mjevans 7y ago
- vonmoltke 7y ago
  > That’s because there’s no amputation risk in white collar jobs. In most white-collar jobs. My first white-collar job involved (among other things) probing live 270VDC circuits, overseeing tests in liquid-nitrogren-cooled chambers, and working in close proximity to live radiating antennas. Sure, I spent most of my time at my desk, but that was still ample opportunity for serious, permanent injury.

john_moscow 7y ago

Well, I can bet your shop's business model isn't raising hundreds of millions in capital while providing a below cost oil change service done by a team of 10 (5 of those being the CEO's buddies on administrative positions) based on the premise that one day the mechanics' labor will get automated and the company will instantly start making zillions per year.

hinkley 7y ago

I think it's machismo. In a room full of people white knuckling everything, nobody wants to be the 'baby' who calls for rational behavior. I see the same thing in white collar jobs, but the damage is harder to see. Physical and mental health rather than broken bones and lost limbs. There's no reason everyone should have to be a hero all the fucking time. But often the only way to fix it is if everyone refuses. Not saying unionize, but if everyone slows down to a sustainable pace then what can they do about it?

birdyrooster 7y ago
Futilely reorganize your business units repeatedly until it’s a Dead Sea and there is no distinction between working hard and slacking off. Edit: I see I cut too close to reality for some here and I want to apologize if you felt this sarcasm was off base but really I feel that my comments are indicative of reality and I am bringing something new to the conversation here.
bmurphy1976 7y ago
>There's no reason everyone should have to be a hero all the fucking time. But often the only way to fix it is if everyone refuses. Not saying unionize, but if everyone slows down to a sustainable pace then what can they do about it? Exactly what they did starting in the 70's and 80's, start shipping the jobs to someplace else. There's always somebody who is desperate. I'm not personally against trade with countries such as China, but it damn sure needs to be more accountable than it has been. Unfortunately I don't think the way we traditionally have unions in the states enough. We need a much larger group of people to stand up and demand a better system. We might need to have unions for entire industries ala some European countries, and even that might not be enough.
mikhailfranco 7y ago
It is a classic arms race, which is self-reinforcing and detrimental to all participants, but cannot be broken by local decisions. A rational group cannot break the trend, if the psycho alpha male co-worker still wants to fight for priority (and VP status). Even a union in one company cannot enforce anything, because anything that lowers productivity will destroy the company. Any union that has power across multiple companies ends in restrictive practices, anti-competitive behaviour, and barriers to entry to the workforce, where the psycho alpha male union boss calls the tune (mafia all over again). Then whole national industries die in the face of cut-throat international competition ...