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If you're looking for a replacement you don't understand the problem. The problem isn't that P=.05 is an arbitrary measure of significance. The problem is that
by kerkeslager 7y ago
If you're looking for a replacement you don't understand the problem.
The problem isn't that P=.05 is an arbitrary measure of significance. The problem is that only publishing significant results is a bias against the null hypothesis.
Let's say you're doing a study of flipping coins. The null hypothesis is that the coin is evenly weighted. If the null hypothesis is true, when you flip a coin once, it will come up heads with P=.5. If you flip the coin twice, the null hypothesis is that both flips come up heads with P=.25. The probability of all coins coming up heads is P=0.125 for 3 flips, P=0.0625 for 4 flips, and P=.03125 for 5 flips. So if we flip a coin 5 times, and get heads all 5 times, we can conclude that the coin is weighted in some way with P=0.03125.
Let's say all the major journals of coin flipping only publish results with the high significance of P<0.05. Alice flips a quarter 5 times and gets 3 heads and 2 tails, and nobody will publish her study because it has P=.3125 (see [1] for an intuitive explanation of how this was calculated). Bob flips a quarter 5 times and gets 2 heads and 3 tails--again, no journal will publish him. Catherine, David, Ellen, Frank, and Geri all perform the same experiment, most of them getting groupings 3:2 result ratios, some getting 4:1 result ratios, but nobody getting all heads or all tails, just as one would expect given the null hypothesis. And the journal editors tirelessly send out rejection letters to all their studies.
Now somewhere down the line, Robert flips a coin 5 times and gets 5 heads. This result has P=.03125, which meets the requirement of P<.05! He sends it to the American Journal of Coin Flipping Studies (AJCFS), and they are very excited to publish his results! Nature and Science magazines do front page pieces with headlines "Quarters Found Heavy-headed" and "Washington Shows His Face" respectively. A casino hires Robert as a consultant for the design of their coin-flipping games. His quarter-flipping study is cited in the abstracts of two dime-flipping studies and a half-dollar flipping study. During the trial of a murderer who placed quarters tails-side up on his victims, Robert is called as an expert witness to say that the coins were placed there, not flipped there.
A week later Sally flips a quarter 5 times and gets 2 heads and 3 tails. She sends the results of her study to the AJCFS noting a failure to reproduce Robert's result, but her study is rejected because it has P=.3125.
Now, if you survey the AJCFS and all the other academic journals on coin flipping, you'd conclude that quarters are significantly weighted towards heads. But in fact, the null hypothesis is true: quarters are pretty evenly weighted. Robert's low-P result is exactly what you'd expect to happen eventually if you have enough people perform the 5-quarter-flip experiment--in fact, if a lot of people are studying coin flips, the P of getting a low-P result approaches P=1. But because the AJCFS has a P=.05 requirement, they've created a bias against the null hypothesis, which deceives the public into thinking that flipped quarters are more likely to come up heads than tails.
This is likely the reason why so many fields, most notably psychology[2], are having a replication crisis[3] and a similar effect can be used in P-hacking[4] to bolster results that are essentially fake.
Unlike coin-flipping, fields with replication crises like psychology and medicine have real affects on real people's lives. It's irresponsible and unethical for journals to publish with a bias against the null hypothesis, and adjusting the P-value requirements to another significance requirement, even a less arbitrary one, doesn't fix the issue.
The solution, I think, is for journals to commit to publish studies before the study has been performed, based on the methodology, previous studies on the subject, and qualifications of the researcher. This would mean that many, many studies would be published with null results, and that would be a good thing.
[1] There are 32 possible outcomes for flipping a coin 5 times. If we group them by how many heads and tails, we can calculate a probability for each outcome:
HHHHH 1 result of 5 heads -> P = 1/32 = .03125
HHHHT
HHHTH
HHTHH 5 results of 4 heads, 1 tails -> P = 5/32 = .15625
HTHHH
THHHH
HHHTT
HHTHT
HHTTH
HTHHT
HTHTH
HTTHH 10 results of 3 heads, 2 tails -> P = 10/32 = .3125
THHHT
THHTH
THTHH
TTHHH
HHTTT
HTHTT
HTTHT
HTTTH
THHTT 10 results of 2 heads, 3 tails -> P = 10/32 = .3125
THTHT
THTTH
TTHHT
TTHTH
TTTHH
HTTTT
THTTT
TTHTT 5 results of 1 heads, 4 tails -> P = 5/32 = .15625
TTTHT
TTTTH
TTTTT 1 result of 5 tails -> P = 1/32 = .03125
[2] https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/what-crisis-reproducibility-crisis https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/what-crisis-reproducibili...
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis
[4] https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.1002106 https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/jou...
EDIT: Also see roenxi's excellent post on how "significant" means different things in statistics and colloquial English: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20895893 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20895893
- mkl 7y agoGood explanation! A typo: "requirement of P<.5" → "requirement of P<.05".
- kerkeslager 7y agoThanks! I've corrected it.
- naavis 7y agoWhat a super good explanation! Thanks!
- turk73 7y agoThis is interesting because when I learned all this stuff the P value wasn't the only measure of study design quality. There was also statistical power which here would related to number of coin flips performed. You simply can't flip a coin 5 times and say you have statistically valid results you would be laughed out of the auditorium. Maybe it requires 1000 independent trials, or 10,000, but certainly not 5. The P value was just about confidence level of rejecting the null hypothesis, but much more has to go into study design in order to make it valid. I have not done this sort of work since the early 2000s, I am relying on memory and a couple of quick web searches.
- omarhaneef 7y agoThis is actually a much better explanation of the problem than the main article. The main article kept saying that p values were not meant to be definitive, but without explaining what was wrong with them. At least, not very clearly. This comment is a much clearer explanation -- imho -- as to what goes wrong in the industry. I also think it is right to focus the attention away from a particular statistical measure.
- kerkeslager 7y agoIt seems clear to me that the author just didn't understand the problem with P values. It's part of a larger problem of science journalism being done by journalists without scientific backgrounds. It's not their fault--even if you have natural ability and interest in both communication and discovery, it's hard to get an education in both. I have the opposite problem: my abilities lie more in the statistics/science than the communication--I suspect the only reason that this explanation is being received so well is that I happened across an effective example by pure luck. The probability of me communicating effectively is probably P < .5. ;)