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The article is biased and full of negative stereotypes and a thinly veiled attack at not the Universities but the practice of Affirmative Action and dare I say

by prayag 16y ago

The article is biased and full of negative stereotypes and a thinly veiled attack at not the Universities but the practice of Affirmative Action and dare I say, racial, ethnic and sexual minorities themselves. First of all, SAT scores or grades are hardly any measure of the 'smartness' of academic credibility of the student. For example, as a commenter above pointed out, in computer science, a person who has average grades but more research work and open source experience is probably more motivated to learn than a student with just good grades. Secondly, the data[1] proves even that though minority students who make it with affirmative action might graduate with average of below average scores but perform as well as their colleagues in their professional life. Come to think of it, isn't this what education is really about. Changing people's lives for good. Thirdly, contrary to what the author might want us to believe, the politically charged atmosphere in the Universities during the 70s was good for the society. Remember the free speech movement? Universities have been the breeding ground of revolutionary thinking for centuries and it is actually unhealthy for the society if the Universities are too compliant with the dominant thinking. Fourthly, though I am sometimes critical of exuberant spending on sports by American Universities, they are the primary reason of the USA's sporting excellence. Why should a student who is obsessed with and excels at track-and-field be penalized for his obsession? In addition, These 'dumb-jocks' work harder than most students. Contrary to popular beliefs; in most top ranked Universities these athletes have to finish as many credits as a non-athlete and have to work as hard on their courses. I think very highly of CalTech and respect them, but the reasons for their excellence is not what the author would want us to believe. The article is nothing but horse manure. [1] Malcolm Gladwell, Outliers, 2008

prayag 16y ago
I hate it when people downvote without making an effort of writing (even a brief) rebuttal.
ethnomusicolog 16y ago
Above a certain level of 'smartness', a SAT score means nothing. If more than a dozen of people can have a perfect score, it just means that the search space is not big enough.
tzs 16y ago
Caltech does have a kind of affirmative action (or at least it used to). For instance, when I was there they were trying hard to get more women. However, they did not do it by lowering standards for women compared to men. Rather, they sought out qualified women and recruited them, much the way other schools recruit athletes. For instance, they might send someone to personally go visit the woman to try to sell her on the benefits of Caltech, and pay for the woman and her parents to visit and tour the campus.
- jessriedel 16y ago
  This is just semantics. Affirmative action, in this context, means favoring certain minorities in the admissions process.
- Anechoic 16y ago
  * Rather, they sought out qualified women and recruited them, much the way other schools recruit athletes* that is exactly what affirmative action is.
jessriedel 16y ago
> The article is biased and full of negative stereotypes and a thinly veiled attack at ... dare I say, racial, ethnic and sexual minorities themselves. Could you give an example of how this author could have criticized the practice of affirmative action without attacking racial, ethnic and sexual minorities themselves? I agree that the author clearly has an axe to grind, but I see nothing in the text which attacks a minority. Honestly, it seems like you're accusing him of racism based only off the fact that he opposes affirmative action. ADDED: >SAT scores or grades are hardly any measure of the 'smartness' of academic credibility of the student. For example, as a commenter above pointed out, in computer science, a person who has average grades but more research work and open source experience is probably more motivated to learn than a student with just good grades. The author uses SAT scores because they are the best objective measure we have of academic quality. Most other measures (GPA, high school research experience) are going to be strongly effected by where the student is from. Nowhere does the author suggest that research experience shouldn't be considered. And, in fact, using this measure would benefit the rich, white, and privileged students, as they are much more likely to have such research opportunities than poor minorities. >Secondly, the data[1] proves even that though minority students who make it with affirmative action might graduate with average of below average scores but perform as well as their colleagues in their professional life. The data as you describe only confirms that well-known fact that top-tier schools add negligible value to the professional prospect of its students. That is, after controlling for SATs, familiy income, etc., future success doesn't depend on what school you attend. (I can pull the study if you want.) That data says nothing about the how lower admission standards for minorities impact the schools academics. And, as you say, their grades are weak both in high school and college. >Thirdly, contrary to what the author might want us to believe, the politically charged atmosphere in the Universities during the 70s was good for the society. This isn't the main thesis of the article; the author is just giving you his perspective on where the situation originated. >Why should a student who is obsessed with and excels at track-and-field be penalized for his obsession? No one is suggesting that athlete's be penalized. The author is arguing that they shouldn't receive the (massive) boost in admissions.
- prayag 16y ago
  >"Minding the Campus readers probably need little instruction on the corrupting effects of the racial balancing game played by almost all our elite universities" Racial balancing is somehow corrupting? If I am making a claim like that I would definitely like to back it up with some facts. >" The typical African- American and Latino student who gets admitted to the most elite colleges and universities in the U.S...." What is a typical African-American student? Can I meet him? Racial stereotypes are loaded, and the authors throws them around like bad puns. >"a requirement often interpreted to mean that if there is a male lacrosse, soccer, water polo, volleyball, cross-country, or fencing team there must be a female equivalent" And this is a problem, why? Why shouldn't there be a female equivalent of a fencing team? I don't think the author is racist or sexist, I am sure he is a perfectly nice person to meet. However, his deep hatred for programs to achieve social equality leads him to have beliefs that are very very worrisome from a racial and gender equality point of view.
dev_jim 16y ago
Malcolm Gladwell's books are becoming the new Freakonomics...

by prayag 16y ago

prayag 16y ago

I hate it when people downvote without making an effort of writing (even a brief) rebuttal.

ethnomusicolog 16y ago

Above a certain level of 'smartness', a SAT score means nothing. If more than a dozen of people can have a perfect score, it just means that the search space is not big enough.

tzs 16y ago

Caltech does have a kind of affirmative action (or at least it used to). For instance, when I was there they were trying hard to get more women. However, they did not do it by lowering standards for women compared to men. Rather, they sought out qualified women and recruited them, much the way other schools recruit athletes. For instance, they might send someone to personally go visit the woman to try to sell her on the benefits of Caltech, and pay for the woman and her parents to visit and tour the campus.

jessriedel 16y ago
This is just semantics. Affirmative action, in this context, means favoring certain minorities in the admissions process.
Anechoic 16y ago
* Rather, they sought out qualified women and recruited them, much the way other schools recruit athletes* that is exactly what affirmative action is.

jessriedel 16y ago

> The article is biased and full of negative stereotypes and a thinly veiled attack at ... dare I say, racial, ethnic and sexual minorities themselves. Could you give an example of how this author could have criticized the practice of affirmative action without attacking racial, ethnic and sexual minorities themselves? I agree that the author clearly has an axe to grind, but I see nothing in the text which attacks a minority. Honestly, it seems like you're accusing him of racism based only off the fact that he opposes affirmative action. ADDED: >SAT scores or grades are hardly any measure of the 'smartness' of academic credibility of the student. For example, as a commenter above pointed out, in computer science, a person who has average grades but more research work and open source experience is probably more motivated to learn than a student with just good grades. The author uses SAT scores because they are the best objective measure we have of academic quality. Most other measures (GPA, high school research experience) are going to be strongly effected by where the student is from. Nowhere does the author suggest that research experience shouldn't be considered. And, in fact, using this measure would benefit the rich, white, and privileged students, as they are much more likely to have such research opportunities than poor minorities. >Secondly, the data[1] proves even that though minority students who make it with affirmative action might graduate with average of below average scores but perform as well as their colleagues in their professional life. The data as you describe only confirms that well-known fact that top-tier schools add negligible value to the professional prospect of its students. That is, after controlling for SATs, familiy income, etc., future success doesn't depend on what school you attend. (I can pull the study if you want.) That data says nothing about the how lower admission standards for minorities impact the schools academics. And, as you say, their grades are weak both in high school and college. >Thirdly, contrary to what the author might want us to believe, the politically charged atmosphere in the Universities during the 70s was good for the society. This isn't the main thesis of the article; the author is just giving you his perspective on where the situation originated. >Why should a student who is obsessed with and excels at track-and-field be penalized for his obsession? No one is suggesting that athlete's be penalized. The author is arguing that they shouldn't receive the (massive) boost in admissions.

prayag 16y ago
>"Minding the Campus readers probably need little instruction on the corrupting effects of the racial balancing game played by almost all our elite universities" Racial balancing is somehow corrupting? If I am making a claim like that I would definitely like to back it up with some facts. >" The typical African- American and Latino student who gets admitted to the most elite colleges and universities in the U.S...." What is a typical African-American student? Can I meet him? Racial stereotypes are loaded, and the authors throws them around like bad puns. >"a requirement often interpreted to mean that if there is a male lacrosse, soccer, water polo, volleyball, cross-country, or fencing team there must be a female equivalent" And this is a problem, why? Why shouldn't there be a female equivalent of a fencing team? I don't think the author is racist or sexist, I am sure he is a perfectly nice person to meet. However, his deep hatred for programs to achieve social equality leads him to have beliefs that are very very worrisome from a racial and gender equality point of view.

dev_jim 16y ago

Malcolm Gladwell's books are becoming the new Freakonomics...