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Maybe Tech should stop being so terrible with our data and privacy. There are maybe 2 or 3 major companies (Mozilla, Apple?) that have shown any interest in pr

Maybe Tech should stop being so terrible with our data and privacy. There are maybe 2 or 3 major companies (Mozilla, Apple?) that have shown any interest in protecting their users privacy and not abusing and mining all the data they collect from their users, who have unsurprisingly not understood the implications of the massive amount of data that can be collected over the past decade or so.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Lio 7y ago
It would be nice if aggressive tax avoidance closely resembling money laundering schemes weren’t quite so central to the FAANG business models too. Especially when they’re in competition with bricks and mortar stores that can’t use “double Dutch” and “double Irish” tax dodges.
- short_sells_poo 7y ago
  I wouldn't single out FAANG (or Tech) for this particular issue, because it is not idiosyncratic to these sectors. It is a systemic issue with the corporate culture and regulations. Corporations have an obligation to shareholders and they would be open to lawsuits if they did not partake in this morally questionable but legally A-OK process.
  - falcolas 7y ago
    If they’re doing it, why not call them out for their actions? That someone else is doing it doesn’t make tech companies doing it somehow OK, or less worthy of condemnation.
    - short_sells_poo 7y ago
      Sorry I should've phrased that better. I agree with your point, but we should not target tech specifically for this, rather work on forcing the entire corporate landscape to change.
      - falcolas 7y ago
        Any forcing action will realistically occur one sector at a time as the laws and morality catch up to that sections actions. This is simply a morality push against one sector, and its not as if we're not moralizing against other companies for doing this. HN will simply see more of the tech side of things due to the inherent bias of articles posted here.
        short_sells_poo 7y ago
        I disagree, because of what I posted before. This is not an issue idiosyncratic to Tech, and out of all the shenanigans they pull off, this might be one of the most vanilla ones. It's a little bit like (and I try not to strawman your argument) targeting the coal industry because they use this trick too. Yes, to add infamy, they dodge taxes as well, but more to the point, they do far more sinister things that should take priority (for that specific sector). The tax evasion is a very important, but more general and unfortunately pervasive problem of our society. I believe we'll do it a disservice if we try to target it narrowly like that. It will get drowned out by whataboutism and the bigger but specific issues. None of that can derail it when looking at the bigger picture.
  - humanrebar 7y ago
    Or we could blame Congress for continuing to shepherd a ridiculous tax code instead of fixing it. Politicians have more to say about chicken sandwiches, library story time, and and NFL pregames when their actual job is exactly this sort of problem, not being professional culture pundits.
    - pixl97 7y ago
      Congress is paid a lot of money not to talk about the tax code.
short_sells_poo 7y ago
I agree. Disregarding any potential bias from NYT, I find it important that some major publications hammer it home to ordinary people that alas the Tech industry has joined the ranks of big pharma, big finance and arms manufacturers to become just as untrustworthy as the incumbent bad guys. People still see Tech as benign, but it has been twisted from the early starry-eyed technologists who wanted to change the world for the better, and it has become just another big industry power block that looks after only it's own profits to the exclusion of everything else.
journalctl 7y ago
This was cathartic to read, even though it’s short. Big tech has become evil. It’s mostly banal, of course (“You want to sell the fact that I like football and puppies to ad companies? Sure, who cares?”), but it’s still a net negative for society. And it’s not tech’s fault per se, but rather the unfettered and uninhibited pursuit of ever more capital. Tech can be a tool for good, but when driven by the profit machine, the incentives make it a tool for evil. We have to face it: we’re not helping the world.
traderjane 7y ago
We've been saying for awhile that an individual has agency and that the free actions they choose on the free market with their owned money is all on them, fruits, pains, and all. We allow people to enter into all sorts of arrangements where they compromise their rights, such as by giving up their right to sue in court or not seeking employment in the same industry. We allow people to enter into onerous credit card agreements, and we all agree that it is voluntary. And we say that when an 18 year old youth purchases cigarettes, that again, they are exercising their intellect in an act of agency. And then we come to the issue of software licenses, which also begs the question as people trade privacy for services, "Yes, you are an individual of formidable agency, are you not?"

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

Lio 7y ago

It would be nice if aggressive tax avoidance closely resembling money laundering schemes weren’t quite so central to the FAANG business models too. Especially when they’re in competition with bricks and mortar stores that can’t use “double Dutch” and “double Irish” tax dodges.

short_sells_poo 7y ago
I wouldn't single out FAANG (or Tech) for this particular issue, because it is not idiosyncratic to these sectors. It is a systemic issue with the corporate culture and regulations. Corporations have an obligation to shareholders and they would be open to lawsuits if they did not partake in this morally questionable but legally A-OK process.
- falcolas 7y ago
  If they’re doing it, why not call them out for their actions? That someone else is doing it doesn’t make tech companies doing it somehow OK, or less worthy of condemnation.
  - short_sells_poo 7y ago
    Sorry I should've phrased that better. I agree with your point, but we should not target tech specifically for this, rather work on forcing the entire corporate landscape to change.
    - falcolas 7y ago
      Any forcing action will realistically occur one sector at a time as the laws and morality catch up to that sections actions. This is simply a morality push against one sector, and its not as if we're not moralizing against other companies for doing this. HN will simply see more of the tech side of things due to the inherent bias of articles posted here.
      - short_sells_poo 7y ago
        I disagree, because of what I posted before. This is not an issue idiosyncratic to Tech, and out of all the shenanigans they pull off, this might be one of the most vanilla ones. It's a little bit like (and I try not to strawman your argument) targeting the coal industry because they use this trick too. Yes, to add infamy, they dodge taxes as well, but more to the point, they do far more sinister things that should take priority (for that specific sector). The tax evasion is a very important, but more general and unfortunately pervasive problem of our society. I believe we'll do it a disservice if we try to target it narrowly like that. It will get drowned out by whataboutism and the bigger but specific issues. None of that can derail it when looking at the bigger picture.
- humanrebar 7y ago
  Or we could blame Congress for continuing to shepherd a ridiculous tax code instead of fixing it. Politicians have more to say about chicken sandwiches, library story time, and and NFL pregames when their actual job is exactly this sort of problem, not being professional culture pundits.
  - pixl97 7y ago
    Congress is paid a lot of money not to talk about the tax code.

short_sells_poo 7y ago

I agree. Disregarding any potential bias from NYT, I find it important that some major publications hammer it home to ordinary people that alas the Tech industry has joined the ranks of big pharma, big finance and arms manufacturers to become just as untrustworthy as the incumbent bad guys. People still see Tech as benign, but it has been twisted from the early starry-eyed technologists who wanted to change the world for the better, and it has become just another big industry power block that looks after only it's own profits to the exclusion of everything else.

journalctl 7y ago

This was cathartic to read, even though it’s short. Big tech has become evil. It’s mostly banal, of course (“You want to sell the fact that I like football and puppies to ad companies? Sure, who cares?”), but it’s still a net negative for society. And it’s not tech’s fault per se, but rather the unfettered and uninhibited pursuit of ever more capital. Tech can be a tool for good, but when driven by the profit machine, the incentives make it a tool for evil. We have to face it: we’re not helping the world.

traderjane 7y ago

We've been saying for awhile that an individual has agency and that the free actions they choose on the free market with their owned money is all on them, fruits, pains, and all. We allow people to enter into all sorts of arrangements where they compromise their rights, such as by giving up their right to sue in court or not seeking employment in the same industry. We allow people to enter into onerous credit card agreements, and we all agree that it is voluntary. And we say that when an 18 year old youth purchases cigarettes, that again, they are exercising their intellect in an act of agency. And then we come to the issue of software licenses, which also begs the question as people trade privacy for services, "Yes, you are an individual of formidable agency, are you not?"