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Disagree, even Ancient Rome had graffiti. As did caves. Are you trying to say that humans in caves had “profoundly sick societies?” Graffiti is a natural insti

Disagree, even Ancient Rome had graffiti. As did caves. Are you trying to say that humans in caves had “profoundly sick societies?” Graffiti is a natural instinct. REPRESSING that instinct signals a sick society.

faissaloo 7y ago
I don't believe Rome is a great example of a healthy society, and the presence of some graffiti isn't the same as it being widespread. Caves are an entirely different context entirely, I wouldn't consider all wall art to be graffiti. All good societies repress certain inclinations because they understand they cause harm to others. A sick society inclines people towards damaging the structures built around them because they see those structures as symbolising their own oppression in some capacity.
- dondawest 7y ago
  >Caves are an entirely different context Respectfully disagree. >A sick society inclines people towards damaging the structures built around them because they see those structures as symbolising their own oppression in some capacity. If you don’t think oppression exists, and that it can be symbolized by structures, I don’t know what to tell you. Are you against the toppling of sculptures of Saddam Hussein? What do you think of advertising? Do you not consider billboards “damaging to structures”? How do you think advertising differs from graffiti and do you really find advertising non-oppressive? No ad agencies ask my permission to assault my visual field with a billboard, and neither do graffiti artists. All’s fair in art and war.
  - faissaloo 7y ago
    >If you don’t think oppression exists, and that it can be symbolized by structures, I don’t know what to tell you. I said the exact opposite. The advertising industry shouldn't exist and neither should statues of anyone let alone tyrants like Saddam.
    - dondawest 7y ago
      You don’t think statues of anyone should exist? What about Michelangelo’s David?
      - faissaloo 7y ago
        It shouldn't exist and if displayed on public property should be torn down, albeit this is an unrelated issue to that of rebellious art.
        dondawest 7y ago
        Why do you think Michelangelo’s David shouldn’t exist? That is one of the oddest opinions I’ve ever encountered in my life.
        faissaloo 7y ago
        As time progresses statues have a nasty tendancy to become objects of worship as their original stories are lost and replaced with new ones or greatly exaggerated. Once something is raised to the point of worship people will begin doing what they think the idol wants and as a theocrat this is concerning, as it splinters and corrupts society's morals.
        dondawest 7y ago
        Lmfao
    - dang 7y ago
      Please stop posting unsubstantive comments and/or flamebait to Hacker News. We've had to ask you this before. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
      - faissaloo 7y ago
        I don't see how this is flamebait.
- whytaka 7y ago
  > A sick society inclines people towards damaging the structures built around them because they see those structures as symbolising their own oppression in some capacity. Or simply the force of youthful rebellion that seeks to always create something new as a reaction against the old.
  - faissaloo 7y ago
    'Youthful rebellion' needn't always exist. I reject the notion that young people rebel because they are young rather than because they live in a society that has not raised and supported people correctly.
    - dondawest 7y ago
      >Youthful rebellion needn’t always exist. Respectfully disagree. Youthful rebellion appears to be driven by hormone-related factors (elevated risk tolerance) rather than being driven by reactions to anything in particular about a society. Source: https://www.pnas.org/content/109/42/17135 https://www.pnas.org/content/109/42/17135
      - faissaloo 7y ago
        Disagree, such studies are extremely western oriented, cross cultural studies indicate otherwise https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-teen-brain-2007-06/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-t...
        dondawest 7y ago
        That study talks about teen brains. I’m talking about teen hormones. And that study fails to account for the facts that: Mao’s rise was driven by youthful rebellion in China Many Islamic suicide bombers are teenagers The Amish have rumspringa And yes some western teens are graffiti artists. Teen rebellion cuts across cultures, that study just doesn’t show it because it is solely attempting to refute the univariate “brain” factor. I’m not talking about brains. I’m talking about hormones and risk tolerance. Teen rebellion cuts across cultures. And no single-variable “cross cultural study” can prove otherwise

faissaloo 7y ago

I don't believe Rome is a great example of a healthy society, and the presence of some graffiti isn't the same as it being widespread. Caves are an entirely different context entirely, I wouldn't consider all wall art to be graffiti. All good societies repress certain inclinations because they understand they cause harm to others. A sick society inclines people towards damaging the structures built around them because they see those structures as symbolising their own oppression in some capacity.

dondawest 7y ago
>Caves are an entirely different context Respectfully disagree. >A sick society inclines people towards damaging the structures built around them because they see those structures as symbolising their own oppression in some capacity. If you don’t think oppression exists, and that it can be symbolized by structures, I don’t know what to tell you. Are you against the toppling of sculptures of Saddam Hussein? What do you think of advertising? Do you not consider billboards “damaging to structures”? How do you think advertising differs from graffiti and do you really find advertising non-oppressive? No ad agencies ask my permission to assault my visual field with a billboard, and neither do graffiti artists. All’s fair in art and war.
- faissaloo 7y ago
  >If you don’t think oppression exists, and that it can be symbolized by structures, I don’t know what to tell you. I said the exact opposite. The advertising industry shouldn't exist and neither should statues of anyone let alone tyrants like Saddam.
  - dondawest 7y ago
    You don’t think statues of anyone should exist? What about Michelangelo’s David?
    - faissaloo 7y ago
      It shouldn't exist and if displayed on public property should be torn down, albeit this is an unrelated issue to that of rebellious art.
      - dondawest 7y ago
        Why do you think Michelangelo’s David shouldn’t exist? That is one of the oddest opinions I’ve ever encountered in my life.
        faissaloo 7y ago
        As time progresses statues have a nasty tendancy to become objects of worship as their original stories are lost and replaced with new ones or greatly exaggerated. Once something is raised to the point of worship people will begin doing what they think the idol wants and as a theocrat this is concerning, as it splinters and corrupts society's morals.
        dondawest 7y ago
        Lmfao
  - dang 7y ago
    Please stop posting unsubstantive comments and/or flamebait to Hacker News. We've had to ask you this before. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - faissaloo 7y ago
      I don't see how this is flamebait.
whytaka 7y ago
> A sick society inclines people towards damaging the structures built around them because they see those structures as symbolising their own oppression in some capacity. Or simply the force of youthful rebellion that seeks to always create something new as a reaction against the old.
- faissaloo 7y ago
  'Youthful rebellion' needn't always exist. I reject the notion that young people rebel because they are young rather than because they live in a society that has not raised and supported people correctly.
  - dondawest 7y ago
    >Youthful rebellion needn’t always exist. Respectfully disagree. Youthful rebellion appears to be driven by hormone-related factors (elevated risk tolerance) rather than being driven by reactions to anything in particular about a society. Source: https://www.pnas.org/content/109/42/17135 https://www.pnas.org/content/109/42/17135
    - faissaloo 7y ago
      Disagree, such studies are extremely western oriented, cross cultural studies indicate otherwise https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-teen-brain-2007-06/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-myth-of-the-t...
      - dondawest 7y ago
        That study talks about teen brains. I’m talking about teen hormones. And that study fails to account for the facts that: Mao’s rise was driven by youthful rebellion in China Many Islamic suicide bombers are teenagers The Amish have rumspringa And yes some western teens are graffiti artists. Teen rebellion cuts across cultures, that study just doesn’t show it because it is solely attempting to refute the univariate “brain” factor. I’m not talking about brains. I’m talking about hormones and risk tolerance. Teen rebellion cuts across cultures. And no single-variable “cross cultural study” can prove otherwise