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This is a natural outgrowth of 4chan culture for anyone who browsed it years ago. Journalists who haven’t been down those roads will always miss the point. 8cha

This is a natural outgrowth of 4chan culture for anyone who browsed it years ago. Journalists who haven’t been down those roads will always miss the point. 8chan and sites like it are a symptom, not a cause. The cause is rooted in the isolation and disenfranchisement of men in modern society. Jordan Peterson is one of the only individuals I’ve heard describing the root of this problem in a professional, statistical, research based manner. As long as we continue to destroy everything that has traditionally given men meaning, this will get worse. 20% of men enjoy 80% of female attention in a dating app world. Churches, bowling leagues, etc. are dead and gone, community has collapsed. Patriotism is dead, the government is seen as corrupt and full of fools. Corporations are decried as soul sucking bastions of greed. On the one hand, these are good things. Truths laid bare. We no longer look up at our flags and company brands in reverence. But without mating, community, honor (serving your nation), or mastery (serving your work), what are they going to do? Lash out. They literally just don’t care about society anymore. Why should they? Where’s the buy in? At least that’s the logic as I understand it. It’s not correct. Ethics, morals, and honest self assessment are completely lacking in these people. But it’s a real thing that’s happening.

presidentscroob 7y ago
Exactly. I was just at a community dinner for survivors of the Paradise Camp Fire, and reflected on the greater numbers of single, older men sitting by themselves. It's as if a segment of society is deemed like Detroit: unnecessary and left to rust in solitude in the fields. Americans are being atomized, divided and distracted from one-another into quiet, lonely, purposeless, idleness# and desperation#. # These two states that are explosive on their own, brought together are incendiary. Add conspiracy theories, no hope for the future and prevalence of firearms, and it's a recipe for stochastic terrorism, omnicide, suicide and revolution.
- someguydave 7y ago
  Or, they could quietly die alone while occasionally complaining on the Internet about their lot in life. I think the only solution is to try to make a friend if you encounter someone like this.
MrLeap 7y ago
> 20% of men enjoy 80% of female attention in a dating app world. This is a statistic would cause massive amounts of screaming in various internet echo chambers. Some saying it's conservative, and some saying it's an exaggeration. I'm not going to argue either way because I don't know. It did make me think about something I find pretty horrible about reddit/twitter.. "Callout culture" has morphed into some kind of bizarre bullying cult that feeds off the radicalization it causes. /r/inceltears is a great example. /r/enlightenedcentrism and /r/politics are just advanced sentence vector generators tasked with every possible way to communicate the following axioms: - Support for any tenet of my opposition proves you directly support the opposition's atrocities. - Moderate, centrist or apolitical people are responsible for ALL atrocities. Get mad, we can't be any more partizan than we are so you have to be radicalized! Shit on this group of people this week! Next week it might be someone different! I hate it, and I don't see good outcomes arising from it.
- Traubenfuchs 7y ago
  > Some saying it's conservative, and some saying it's an exaggeration. Screaming and shouting never changes facts: https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-g...
  - animal531 7y ago
    Interesting, I never saw the Tinder experiments. I know the same numbers came up long before when OKCupid was the giant in the field and temporarily released some of their stats (which they then retracted). They showed pretty much the exact same 78/22% skew.
    - joelx 7y ago
      Once you get out of your teens, people pair off one to one. Even unattractive people. I think the issue is more that some guys have extremely unrealistic expectations of what kind of girl they should have. They're overweight, unemployed, and rude to others but think that supermodels should love them. Also remember biologically men are programmed to seek many women whereas women are extremely choosy. This leads to lots of rejection for men. Men just need to accept that and keep trying with a good attitude to find love.
skim_milk 7y ago
I know its not hard for anyone to find flaws in the certain kind of people that become Internet trolls, but... Sure, the church died. Car meets, bars, video game tournaments, rock concerts, so many events these men could fit into are happening every week in your city/near your campus. But because Timmy the Internet troll spends 16 hours on reddit a day he deserves some kind of sympathy for feeling disconnected and hating everyone? It sounds like in your comment that Jordan Peterson is explaining it like we're supposed to accept that it's so hard to leave mother's basement, I don't follow.
- Kaiyou 7y ago
  So tell me how people that do not own cars, do not drink alcohol, have no interest in video game tournaments or rock concerts should fit in. Asking for a friend.
  - krapp 7y ago
    > So tell me how people that do not own cars, do not drink alcohol, have no interest in video game tournaments or rock concerts should fit in. Asking for a friend. The four possibilities mentioned by skim_milk do not define the entire combinatorial space of possible human cultural and societal interaction. The world has billions of people in it who don't fit those criteria, yet somehow they manage to socialize. Your friend needs to not be so pedantic. Surely they have common interests with someone.
    - Mediterraneo10 7y ago
      It is not enough to have common interests. The internet has shown people what it is like to interact with others in a place where no one can see the real you. While it is limiting and lonely in some respects, it is also immensely freeing in others. That leaves many people wary of socializing in real life because, as anyone knows from school, people regularly make fun of each other and judge each other for their appearance etc. even if they are friends. Why open yourself up to that? To me, that is a huge barrier to restoring the kind of community institutions that existed in decades past. Also, when people talk about how men need to be able to meet IRL and have group social experiences (like the bowling leagues of old), they fail to account for how some men at those social events often show hypermasculine behaviors like making fart jokes, talking about banging hot women, complaining about “faggots”, etc. There are plenty of men who are uncomfortable with that. At least on the internet one can find common-interest forums that don’t have that kind of extraneous and uncomfortable humor or obsession with sex.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

presidentscroob 7y ago

Exactly. I was just at a community dinner for survivors of the Paradise Camp Fire, and reflected on the greater numbers of single, older men sitting by themselves. It's as if a segment of society is deemed like Detroit: unnecessary and left to rust in solitude in the fields. Americans are being atomized, divided and distracted from one-another into quiet, lonely, purposeless, idleness# and desperation#. # These two states that are explosive on their own, brought together are incendiary. Add conspiracy theories, no hope for the future and prevalence of firearms, and it's a recipe for stochastic terrorism, omnicide, suicide and revolution.

someguydave 7y ago
Or, they could quietly die alone while occasionally complaining on the Internet about their lot in life. I think the only solution is to try to make a friend if you encounter someone like this.

MrLeap 7y ago

> 20% of men enjoy 80% of female attention in a dating app world. This is a statistic would cause massive amounts of screaming in various internet echo chambers. Some saying it's conservative, and some saying it's an exaggeration. I'm not going to argue either way because I don't know. It did make me think about something I find pretty horrible about reddit/twitter.. "Callout culture" has morphed into some kind of bizarre bullying cult that feeds off the radicalization it causes. /r/inceltears is a great example. /r/enlightenedcentrism and /r/politics are just advanced sentence vector generators tasked with every possible way to communicate the following axioms: - Support for any tenet of my opposition proves you directly support the opposition's atrocities. - Moderate, centrist or apolitical people are responsible for ALL atrocities. Get mad, we can't be any more partizan than we are so you have to be radicalized! Shit on this group of people this week! Next week it might be someone different! I hate it, and I don't see good outcomes arising from it.

Traubenfuchs 7y ago
> Some saying it's conservative, and some saying it's an exaggeration. Screaming and shouting never changes facts: https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-g...
- animal531 7y ago
  Interesting, I never saw the Tinder experiments. I know the same numbers came up long before when OKCupid was the giant in the field and temporarily released some of their stats (which they then retracted). They showed pretty much the exact same 78/22% skew.
  - joelx 7y ago
    Once you get out of your teens, people pair off one to one. Even unattractive people. I think the issue is more that some guys have extremely unrealistic expectations of what kind of girl they should have. They're overweight, unemployed, and rude to others but think that supermodels should love them. Also remember biologically men are programmed to seek many women whereas women are extremely choosy. This leads to lots of rejection for men. Men just need to accept that and keep trying with a good attitude to find love.

skim_milk 7y ago

I know its not hard for anyone to find flaws in the certain kind of people that become Internet trolls, but... Sure, the church died. Car meets, bars, video game tournaments, rock concerts, so many events these men could fit into are happening every week in your city/near your campus. But because Timmy the Internet troll spends 16 hours on reddit a day he deserves some kind of sympathy for feeling disconnected and hating everyone? It sounds like in your comment that Jordan Peterson is explaining it like we're supposed to accept that it's so hard to leave mother's basement, I don't follow.

Kaiyou 7y ago
So tell me how people that do not own cars, do not drink alcohol, have no interest in video game tournaments or rock concerts should fit in. Asking for a friend.
- krapp 7y ago
  > So tell me how people that do not own cars, do not drink alcohol, have no interest in video game tournaments or rock concerts should fit in. Asking for a friend. The four possibilities mentioned by skim_milk do not define the entire combinatorial space of possible human cultural and societal interaction. The world has billions of people in it who don't fit those criteria, yet somehow they manage to socialize. Your friend needs to not be so pedantic. Surely they have common interests with someone.
  - Mediterraneo10 7y ago
    It is not enough to have common interests. The internet has shown people what it is like to interact with others in a place where no one can see the real you. While it is limiting and lonely in some respects, it is also immensely freeing in others. That leaves many people wary of socializing in real life because, as anyone knows from school, people regularly make fun of each other and judge each other for their appearance etc. even if they are friends. Why open yourself up to that? To me, that is a huge barrier to restoring the kind of community institutions that existed in decades past. Also, when people talk about how men need to be able to meet IRL and have group social experiences (like the bowling leagues of old), they fail to account for how some men at those social events often show hypermasculine behaviors like making fart jokes, talking about banging hot women, complaining about “faggots”, etc. There are plenty of men who are uncomfortable with that. At least on the internet one can find common-interest forums that don’t have that kind of extraneous and uncomfortable humor or obsession with sex.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]