5 ms·

Seems to me that the real story here isn’t Amazon but the heartbreaking frequency of vehicular crashes. Always fun to pick on Amazon though.

x0x0 7y ago
The article pointed out -- at some length -- ways that the brave new gig job world is different: less training, more inexperienced drivers, more layers of contractors and subcontractors, drivers under very aggressive time pressure, drivers in vehicles with which they are unfamiliar, and drivers on routes with which they are unfamiliar. And for the coup de grâce, Amazon -- unlike Fedex, DHS, UPS, or the USPS -- worms out of liability for any of these accidents, eliminating pressure to reduce them. Agree or disagree, but it's hard to see how you read the article and didn't see the extensive discussion of ways Amazon is more dangerous.
- tomxor 7y ago
  > the brave new gig job world is different: less training, more inexperienced drivers, more layers of contractors and subcontractors, drivers under very aggressive time pressure, drivers in vehicles with which they are unfamiliar, and drivers on routes with which they are unfamiliar. This seems to apply to Uber drivers in the UK - I've never been in one, but as a pedestrian they are terrible drivers compared to taxis, I frequently witness them driving through zebra crossings and red lights while pedestrians are using them... taxis are the complete opposite, they go out of their way to be nice to pedestrians, after all they are potential customers.
  - cucumberfanatic 7y ago
    > taxis are the complete opposite, they go out of their way to be nice to pedestrians You must be living in a different UK to me (and everyone else based on the general consensus of taxis)! Uber drivers have to drive well else they'll be reviewed poorly. If someone leaves a 1* review for their Uber driver saying that they drove through a red, there will be serious repercussions. Try complaining about a similar thing to a taxi company and see how that works out for you.
    - Tade0 7y ago
      Uber drivers have to drive well else they'll be reviewed poorly. Are they though? I took a good few Ubers who had great ratings but were terrible drivers. The incentive is to get as fast from point A to B and it's having an effect.
      - cucumberfanatic 7y ago
        > The incentive is to get as fast from point A to B and it's having an effect. That's the same for both Uber and taxi drivers.
        Tade0 7y ago
        Taxis usually don't have surge pricing which can end at any moment. Also they usually charge you based on the distance actually travelled, not a predetermined price so they can afford to make detours.
      - tedk-42 7y ago
        I ride a motorcycle to and from work everyday. In terms of quality of drivers respecting other cars: regular car drivers > taxi drivers > Uber drivers. Uber drivers are the worst to drive near to. They do all sorts of stupid things like pull over in spots where they SHOULD not, all to pick up or drop off passengers. I see it time and time again. They prioritise their customer over the road rules and respect for other vehicles. Taxi drivers also drive faster than Uber drivers, who seem to enjoy sitting well under the speed limit.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
      No one is eating when while their vehicle is unoccupied.
    - tomxor 7y ago
      > Uber drivers have to drive well else they'll be reviewed poorly. If someone leaves a 1* review for their Uber driver saying that they drove through a red, there will be serious repercussions. I really doubt that, people riding in ubers are too busy on their phones... and often the drivers are too which is why they are so unobservant. Taxis in between jobs are on the look out for being hailed, they have their eyes on the road and on the street. This is empirical, if you watch enough of them while they are around pedestrian crossings see how attentive they are by comparison.
- gshdg 7y ago
  Also poorly maintained vehicles
- sundayedition 7y ago
  One of my chief complaints about the "gig" economy; large corporations get to avoid certain risks and (some) people ignore (or may be ignorant of) these risks which means society sometimes shares the burden. For example, not paying the extra insurance premiums when using their vehicle for commercial purposes. I think of it similar to working under the table; some think "I get paid more than minimum wage and save money on taxes!" But the employer often saves much more and the worker is often to naive to realize what they're losing out on (social security contributions, potential workers compensation benefits, potential recovery of wages, etc)
Amezarak 7y ago
According to the Buzzfeed investigation, Amazon set it up so as to not require a more stringent commercial driver’s license, and Amazon was exerting such pressure on their contracted startup delivery companies that the companies were telling their drivers not to wear seatbelts and the culture was to pee in bottles. There were even examples of dispatchers telling drivers to flee the scene of accidents to make sure they made their deliveries. Stressing and driving untrained people that hard has a lot more with the sad frequency of vehicular delivery crashes. If Amazon used established companies with trained drivers instead like Fedex, USPS, and UPS, which take safety much more seriously, we wouldn't be talking about this.
Spooky23 7y ago
If you’re doing this argument, you should go the full HN and blame zoning. Poor Amazon wouldn’t need drivers if only zoning rules allowed them to place warehouses anywhere. If silly regulations didn’t forbid Amazon from putting a container full of stuff in every driveway, rent free, countless lives would be saved.

x0x0 7y ago

The article pointed out -- at some length -- ways that the brave new gig job world is different: less training, more inexperienced drivers, more layers of contractors and subcontractors, drivers under very aggressive time pressure, drivers in vehicles with which they are unfamiliar, and drivers on routes with which they are unfamiliar. And for the coup de grâce, Amazon -- unlike Fedex, DHS, UPS, or the USPS -- worms out of liability for any of these accidents, eliminating pressure to reduce them. Agree or disagree, but it's hard to see how you read the article and didn't see the extensive discussion of ways Amazon is more dangerous.

tomxor 7y ago
> the brave new gig job world is different: less training, more inexperienced drivers, more layers of contractors and subcontractors, drivers under very aggressive time pressure, drivers in vehicles with which they are unfamiliar, and drivers on routes with which they are unfamiliar. This seems to apply to Uber drivers in the UK - I've never been in one, but as a pedestrian they are terrible drivers compared to taxis, I frequently witness them driving through zebra crossings and red lights while pedestrians are using them... taxis are the complete opposite, they go out of their way to be nice to pedestrians, after all they are potential customers.
- cucumberfanatic 7y ago
  > taxis are the complete opposite, they go out of their way to be nice to pedestrians You must be living in a different UK to me (and everyone else based on the general consensus of taxis)! Uber drivers have to drive well else they'll be reviewed poorly. If someone leaves a 1* review for their Uber driver saying that they drove through a red, there will be serious repercussions. Try complaining about a similar thing to a taxi company and see how that works out for you.
  - Tade0 7y ago
    Uber drivers have to drive well else they'll be reviewed poorly. Are they though? I took a good few Ubers who had great ratings but were terrible drivers. The incentive is to get as fast from point A to B and it's having an effect.
    - cucumberfanatic 7y ago
      > The incentive is to get as fast from point A to B and it's having an effect. That's the same for both Uber and taxi drivers.
      - Tade0 7y ago
        Taxis usually don't have surge pricing which can end at any moment. Also they usually charge you based on the distance actually travelled, not a predetermined price so they can afford to make detours.
    - tedk-42 7y ago
      I ride a motorcycle to and from work everyday. In terms of quality of drivers respecting other cars: regular car drivers > taxi drivers > Uber drivers. Uber drivers are the worst to drive near to. They do all sorts of stupid things like pull over in spots where they SHOULD not, all to pick up or drop off passengers. I see it time and time again. They prioritise their customer over the road rules and respect for other vehicles. Taxi drivers also drive faster than Uber drivers, who seem to enjoy sitting well under the speed limit.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
    No one is eating when while their vehicle is unoccupied.
  - tomxor 7y ago
    > Uber drivers have to drive well else they'll be reviewed poorly. If someone leaves a 1* review for their Uber driver saying that they drove through a red, there will be serious repercussions. I really doubt that, people riding in ubers are too busy on their phones... and often the drivers are too which is why they are so unobservant. Taxis in between jobs are on the look out for being hailed, they have their eyes on the road and on the street. This is empirical, if you watch enough of them while they are around pedestrian crossings see how attentive they are by comparison.
gshdg 7y ago
Also poorly maintained vehicles
sundayedition 7y ago
One of my chief complaints about the "gig" economy; large corporations get to avoid certain risks and (some) people ignore (or may be ignorant of) these risks which means society sometimes shares the burden. For example, not paying the extra insurance premiums when using their vehicle for commercial purposes. I think of it similar to working under the table; some think "I get paid more than minimum wage and save money on taxes!" But the employer often saves much more and the worker is often to naive to realize what they're losing out on (social security contributions, potential workers compensation benefits, potential recovery of wages, etc)

Amezarak 7y ago

According to the Buzzfeed investigation, Amazon set it up so as to not require a more stringent commercial driver’s license, and Amazon was exerting such pressure on their contracted startup delivery companies that the companies were telling their drivers not to wear seatbelts and the culture was to pee in bottles. There were even examples of dispatchers telling drivers to flee the scene of accidents to make sure they made their deliveries. Stressing and driving untrained people that hard has a lot more with the sad frequency of vehicular delivery crashes. If Amazon used established companies with trained drivers instead like Fedex, USPS, and UPS, which take safety much more seriously, we wouldn't be talking about this.

Spooky23 7y ago

If you’re doing this argument, you should go the full HN and blame zoning. Poor Amazon wouldn’t need drivers if only zoning rules allowed them to place warehouses anywhere. If silly regulations didn’t forbid Amazon from putting a container full of stuff in every driveway, rent free, countless lives would be saved.