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My professional opinion is that Tesla seems to have an advantage because other manufactures do not invest in software properly. The moment one of the big manufa

My professional opinion is that Tesla seems to have an advantage because other manufactures do not invest in software properly. The moment one of the big manufactures embrace proper best practice software development and security (i.e. pay for it), that manufacture will gain a significant advantage.

bluGill 7y ago
Car manufactures have been doing ECUs for years. That is software that needs to work without bugs or it will destroy the engine. You never hear of bugs in them (it happens, but you don't hear of it) because they have figured out best practices that are unknown outside of cars and aviation. VW emissions was not a bug, it was intentional.
- magduf 7y ago
  He's not talking about ECU firmware, he's talking about infotainment software. You can't use the best practices for ECU firmware development as you use for other types of software development: it would never get done! Safety-critical software running on bare-metal or an RTOS (like for ECUs, ABS controllers, avionics, etc.) isn't much like software for doing GPS mapping and other infotainment functions, and the development process is entirely different. The latter has orders of magnitude more lines of code and is far simpler in scope. The OP is right; currently, automakers basically outsource all their infotainment software, and generally do a poor job with it, though it's getting better. Considering how much drivers now interact with these or similar systems (usually on their phones), to do things like stream music and especially navigate, automakers should be doing a better job integrating this stuff into the cockpits for ease of use and safety.
  - rusticpenn 7y ago
    I don't agree with you. There are several tools used in the creation of ECU firmware (and writing it). The software used for detection of car on rollers or road (diesel scandal) was one such tool for example.
    - magduf 7y ago
      What the heck are you talking about? Are you responding to a different post or something? You're not addressing anything I wrote there at all, you're talking about something completely different. My main point was that you can't use the practices used for ECU firmware for other types of software (anything that uses a general-purpose OS), and it's true, it's an entirely different kind of software development.
- hvidgaard 7y ago
  I was not really addressing ECU programming - that is an entirely different beast. But regardless, Toyota was involved in a scandal where they tried to cover up an error in the ECU that resulted in at least one death. A subsequent review of their ECU code was quite worrying - it was to put it mildly, a cluster fuck that would result in deaths sooner or later.
rusticpenn 7y ago
They are massively investing now. I am working for a service provider and we are rejecting several contracts due to lack of man power ( and we are massively expanding)
- hvidgaard 7y ago
  The key is not just invest and expand, but embrace best practices. It matters how your structure the entire thing and basically something like NASAs programming guide lines, and a CI pipeline with rigorous automated test. The budget should reflect significantly higher allocation to QA than actual development. Of course the infotainment software do not have to adhere to such stringent requirement, but if they don't push OTA updates for that, then they might as well to avoid crappy software.
  - rusticpenn 7y ago
    True, however you understimate the role of software in current automotive design (ICE).

bluGill 7y ago

Car manufactures have been doing ECUs for years. That is software that needs to work without bugs or it will destroy the engine. You never hear of bugs in them (it happens, but you don't hear of it) because they have figured out best practices that are unknown outside of cars and aviation. VW emissions was not a bug, it was intentional.

magduf 7y ago
He's not talking about ECU firmware, he's talking about infotainment software. You can't use the best practices for ECU firmware development as you use for other types of software development: it would never get done! Safety-critical software running on bare-metal or an RTOS (like for ECUs, ABS controllers, avionics, etc.) isn't much like software for doing GPS mapping and other infotainment functions, and the development process is entirely different. The latter has orders of magnitude more lines of code and is far simpler in scope. The OP is right; currently, automakers basically outsource all their infotainment software, and generally do a poor job with it, though it's getting better. Considering how much drivers now interact with these or similar systems (usually on their phones), to do things like stream music and especially navigate, automakers should be doing a better job integrating this stuff into the cockpits for ease of use and safety.
- rusticpenn 7y ago
  I don't agree with you. There are several tools used in the creation of ECU firmware (and writing it). The software used for detection of car on rollers or road (diesel scandal) was one such tool for example.
  - magduf 7y ago
    What the heck are you talking about? Are you responding to a different post or something? You're not addressing anything I wrote there at all, you're talking about something completely different. My main point was that you can't use the practices used for ECU firmware for other types of software (anything that uses a general-purpose OS), and it's true, it's an entirely different kind of software development.
hvidgaard 7y ago
I was not really addressing ECU programming - that is an entirely different beast. But regardless, Toyota was involved in a scandal where they tried to cover up an error in the ECU that resulted in at least one death. A subsequent review of their ECU code was quite worrying - it was to put it mildly, a cluster fuck that would result in deaths sooner or later.

rusticpenn 7y ago

They are massively investing now. I am working for a service provider and we are rejecting several contracts due to lack of man power ( and we are massively expanding)

hvidgaard 7y ago
The key is not just invest and expand, but embrace best practices. It matters how your structure the entire thing and basically something like NASAs programming guide lines, and a CI pipeline with rigorous automated test. The budget should reflect significantly higher allocation to QA than actual development. Of course the infotainment software do not have to adhere to such stringent requirement, but if they don't push OTA updates for that, then they might as well to avoid crappy software.
- rusticpenn 7y ago
  True, however you understimate the role of software in current automotive design (ICE).