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I agree with you. There's a tendency of exaggerating the downsides of Asian culture. Some people can't accept uncomfortable truths. I lived in Japan for one yea

I agree with you. There's a tendency of exaggerating the downsides of Asian culture. Some people can't accept uncomfortable truths. I lived in Japan for one year. I felt like a medieval peasant stepping into a time machine. Everything was clean, safe and fully operational. Rome looks like a ghetto compared to Tokyo. Not one graffiti in sight – a byproduct of respect for public spaces. Critics always bring up their work culture, as if that invalidates the whole picture. > Work hard, keep your head down, raise kids, provide for your family, respect your parents, etc. Have you noticed how American media is always set on undermining those qualities?

drivebycomment 7y ago
In case you haven't heard, there's "Paris syndrome" for Japanese, which is: "a condition exhibited by some individuals when visiting or going on vacation to Paris, as a result of extreme shock at discovering that Paris is different from their expectations." per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome Basically, Paris is so dirty that it is a shock to many Japanese. And it's not surprising that's the case, given how clean and tidy Japanese cities are.
- ekianjo 7y ago
  Expectations about Paris are created by fantasy driven marketing about foreign places by the tourism industry as well as local representatives of said countries. Note that mass media is also guilty in Japan for propagating the illusion of a perfect Paris.
- geomark 7y ago
  Not only Japanese. I had a rude awakening as a younger backpacker walking through one of those underground sidewalks in Paris. The strongest and foulest smell of urine imaginable.
- tarsinge 7y ago
  The joke is that you are not in a true Parisian coffee if the waiter is not rude. With that said there are a lot of nice and clean places in Paris. But the tourists area are mostly in the worst neighborhoods. To compare with American cities Moulin Rouge would be a strip club in Skid Row. It’s madness sending tourists in the north/ north center of Paris, travel agencies don’t do their jobs.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
patientplatypus 7y ago
Counter point - I walked past an artist putting up a new mural today because I live in a place with a lot of graffiti and people generally tolerate the bad stuff and enjoy the good stuff. A lot of the art bring in middle age tourists that pay young broke college students to talk to them about the different styles. Japan has its own share of problems that you just don't see because you are not part of their culture, which is one of the most insular in the world (for better and worse). People in Japan are often no happier than anywhere else they just find their unhappiness in different ways. They have a lot of elderly dying alone in 70s era decrepit apartment blocks, and a lot of young people who have chronic agoraphobia (hikkomori). These are generally not Western/US problems.
- fiblye 7y ago
  What? Americans dump their parents in retirement homes and loads of aging Americans live in dumpy apartments and trailer parks as well. And not a day goes by without articles about the rise of social anxiety/NEETs/“incels” withdrawing from the world. They’re not unique problems. Countries just frame other countries as having foreign problems by using different words for the same stuff.
- ekianjo 7y ago
  people dying alone is nothing specific to Japan. This is the standard of most of the developed world. 引きこもり is also not something you face in Japan unless you look for it. You could say there is also a lot of mental health problems in other countries and this is just a different manifestation of it.
- croh 7y ago
  As i am getting older, i started to understand joint family structures from asian countries like India, China or even Italy. When we're young, we are full of ourselves. Everyone wants to freedom and nuclear family. But when your joints stop working with nothing left except loneliness, then the importance of family become clear. Sadly in states too much importance is given to individualism while asian countries are dropping traditions without understanding reasons behind them.
whytaka 7y ago
> Not one graffiti in sight – a byproduct of respect for public spaces. I, for one, enjoy the occasional graffiti. Especially if it's poetic or clever. I enjoy the rebelliousness.
- parsimo2010 7y ago
  Japan has lots of artistic expression that doesn't degrade someone else's property. They have a strong tradition of craftsmanship, and there are handmade things all over that are just oozing with skill. Their manhole covers are even artistic. I suppose that if you really wanted a rebellious display in public then the Japanese culture isn't for you. But if you want poetic and clever art then you just need to look.
  - aaron695 7y ago
    > Their manhole covers are even artistic. When in Japan pre internet and it was well documented I photographed all the different manhole's I saw. 9 in total over 2 weeks, over a lot of leg work us being tourists. Most I'd imagine still look the same today. Not really artistic in a western sense where change and variety in art is admired by the millions of inhabitants around it. Also doesn't really mesh with pop psychology where things (static art) have less value compared to experiences (vibrant art scene).
- ekianjo 7y ago
  Would you like your home to be ravaged by the random graffiti that you did not ask for?
  - whytaka 7y ago
    It had been once. I laughed. But I can agree that it’s less enjoyable on residential property.
  - Xelbair 7y ago
    Depends If it is a monocolored tag made by random kid? I wouldn't. If it was something that took skill to do, even a tag? why not, if i found that person i would pay them to make something awesome on my wall.
andykx 7y ago
Japan is fantastic, but I think there are some absurdly rigid social standards that would keep me from spending long periods of time there. I think it's easy to downplay these standards if you're someone who is generally "average," but the socially conservative attitudes are somewhat offputting to a westerner like me. The attitudes towards things like LGBTQ rights and tattoos are a good example. Collectivism can produce incredible things, but a dose of individualism wouldn't hurt either.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Kaiyou 7y ago
  I'm pretty sure that there's a strong correlation with Japan's attitude and Japan being a fantastic place.
  - homonculus1 7y ago
    >Japan being a fantastic place for a certain type of person There's a heavy implicit qualifier on that, which is what your parent commenter is trying to get across.
    - Kaiyou 7y ago
      Well, sure. You can't please everyone. Just move to a country that is better suited for you, then.
AstralStorm 7y ago
That's just Japan. In South Korea and China things look vastly different. Trash bags on streets, very few cans, some litter. Though still no graffiti.
flukus 7y ago
Whenever I've been to places that are perfectly clean with no graffiti they just feel sterile. It might not be for everyone but I prefer places that are somewhat grungy, they also tend to be the places were good music and art flourish.

drivebycomment 7y ago

In case you haven't heard, there's "Paris syndrome" for Japanese, which is: "a condition exhibited by some individuals when visiting or going on vacation to Paris, as a result of extreme shock at discovering that Paris is different from their expectations." per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome Basically, Paris is so dirty that it is a shock to many Japanese. And it's not surprising that's the case, given how clean and tidy Japanese cities are.

ekianjo 7y ago
Expectations about Paris are created by fantasy driven marketing about foreign places by the tourism industry as well as local representatives of said countries. Note that mass media is also guilty in Japan for propagating the illusion of a perfect Paris.
geomark 7y ago
Not only Japanese. I had a rude awakening as a younger backpacker walking through one of those underground sidewalks in Paris. The strongest and foulest smell of urine imaginable.
tarsinge 7y ago
The joke is that you are not in a true Parisian coffee if the waiter is not rude. With that said there are a lot of nice and clean places in Paris. But the tourists area are mostly in the worst neighborhoods. To compare with American cities Moulin Rouge would be a strip club in Skid Row. It’s madness sending tourists in the north/ north center of Paris, travel agencies don’t do their jobs.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

patientplatypus 7y ago

Counter point - I walked past an artist putting up a new mural today because I live in a place with a lot of graffiti and people generally tolerate the bad stuff and enjoy the good stuff. A lot of the art bring in middle age tourists that pay young broke college students to talk to them about the different styles. Japan has its own share of problems that you just don't see because you are not part of their culture, which is one of the most insular in the world (for better and worse). People in Japan are often no happier than anywhere else they just find their unhappiness in different ways. They have a lot of elderly dying alone in 70s era decrepit apartment blocks, and a lot of young people who have chronic agoraphobia (hikkomori). These are generally not Western/US problems.

fiblye 7y ago
What? Americans dump their parents in retirement homes and loads of aging Americans live in dumpy apartments and trailer parks as well. And not a day goes by without articles about the rise of social anxiety/NEETs/“incels” withdrawing from the world. They’re not unique problems. Countries just frame other countries as having foreign problems by using different words for the same stuff.
ekianjo 7y ago
people dying alone is nothing specific to Japan. This is the standard of most of the developed world. 引きこもり is also not something you face in Japan unless you look for it. You could say there is also a lot of mental health problems in other countries and this is just a different manifestation of it.
croh 7y ago
As i am getting older, i started to understand joint family structures from asian countries like India, China or even Italy. When we're young, we are full of ourselves. Everyone wants to freedom and nuclear family. But when your joints stop working with nothing left except loneliness, then the importance of family become clear. Sadly in states too much importance is given to individualism while asian countries are dropping traditions without understanding reasons behind them.

whytaka 7y ago

> Not one graffiti in sight – a byproduct of respect for public spaces. I, for one, enjoy the occasional graffiti. Especially if it's poetic or clever. I enjoy the rebelliousness.

parsimo2010 7y ago
Japan has lots of artistic expression that doesn't degrade someone else's property. They have a strong tradition of craftsmanship, and there are handmade things all over that are just oozing with skill. Their manhole covers are even artistic. I suppose that if you really wanted a rebellious display in public then the Japanese culture isn't for you. But if you want poetic and clever art then you just need to look.
- aaron695 7y ago
  > Their manhole covers are even artistic. When in Japan pre internet and it was well documented I photographed all the different manhole's I saw. 9 in total over 2 weeks, over a lot of leg work us being tourists. Most I'd imagine still look the same today. Not really artistic in a western sense where change and variety in art is admired by the millions of inhabitants around it. Also doesn't really mesh with pop psychology where things (static art) have less value compared to experiences (vibrant art scene).
ekianjo 7y ago
Would you like your home to be ravaged by the random graffiti that you did not ask for?
- whytaka 7y ago
  It had been once. I laughed. But I can agree that it’s less enjoyable on residential property.
- Xelbair 7y ago
  Depends If it is a monocolored tag made by random kid? I wouldn't. If it was something that took skill to do, even a tag? why not, if i found that person i would pay them to make something awesome on my wall.

andykx 7y ago

Japan is fantastic, but I think there are some absurdly rigid social standards that would keep me from spending long periods of time there. I think it's easy to downplay these standards if you're someone who is generally "average," but the socially conservative attitudes are somewhat offputting to a westerner like me. The attitudes towards things like LGBTQ rights and tattoos are a good example. Collectivism can produce incredible things, but a dose of individualism wouldn't hurt either.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Kaiyou 7y ago
I'm pretty sure that there's a strong correlation with Japan's attitude and Japan being a fantastic place.
- homonculus1 7y ago
  >Japan being a fantastic place for a certain type of person There's a heavy implicit qualifier on that, which is what your parent commenter is trying to get across.
  - Kaiyou 7y ago
    Well, sure. You can't please everyone. Just move to a country that is better suited for you, then.

AstralStorm 7y ago

That's just Japan. In South Korea and China things look vastly different. Trash bags on streets, very few cans, some litter. Though still no graffiti.

flukus 7y ago

Whenever I've been to places that are perfectly clean with no graffiti they just feel sterile. It might not be for everyone but I prefer places that are somewhat grungy, they also tend to be the places were good music and art flourish.