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This is a... puzzling announcement. It certainly reflects a departure from their previously announced shipping window, which back in May they "adjusted" (the w

This is a... puzzling announcement. It certainly reflects a departure from their previously announced shipping window, which back in May they "adjusted" (the word they used at the time) from Q2 2019 to Q3 (see https://puri.sm/posts/massive-progress-exact-cpu-selected-minor-shipping-adjustment/ https://puri.sm/posts/massive-progress-exact-cpu-selected-mi...). And certainly back then they weren't saying anything about Q3 2019 being the start of a year-long iterative release cycle, it was just that the product would ship in Q3 2019, full stop. A cynical interpretation: it sounds like all the batches until "Batch Evergreen" (due Q2 2020) will be of less-than-general-release quality, with each batch getting a bit closer to what the average person would consider a finished product until Evergreen reaches that mark. So one reading of this announcement would be that release of the actual, finished Librem 5 product has now slipped again, this time to mid-2020 -- but they didn't want to just come out and, you know, say that. So instead they've created this "iterative release schedule" so they can say they're shipping something in Q3 2019, even though the actual thing they'll be shipping then isn't going to even be close to what the average person would consider a finished, release-quality product ("loose fit, varying alignment, unfinished switch caps... basic web browsing, early power management"). I like Purism and am generally supportive of what they've been trying to do with this device. But this persistent pattern of (1) slipping deadlines and then (2) announcing that the deadline has slipped in ways that seem calculated to obscure that fact is really troubling. Missing deadlines, by itself, isn't that big a deal on a project like this -- they're trying to do something big and unique, it's understandable if that takes longer than expected. But if you're going to miss a deadline, I'd rather you just say you missed it and give updated guidance, rather than trying to convince me that isn't what actually happened. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Vinnl 7y ago
I guess it might be necessary for marketing reasons, but I'd prefer if they'd just not announce deadlines. You know you're not going to make them, these things always slip, again and again. I also do not really expect them to be "what the average person would consider a finished product" by Evergreen either. As far as I understand it, this is really aimed at power users and enthusiasts willing to suffer some pain for the ability to tinker and the feeling of control over your device. Which is great, but they might've been a bit clearer on that. But ah well, I suppose mistakes are inevitable, and there'll be many more - it's a young company.
- smacktoward 7y ago
  Even for enthusiasts, who I agree can be willing to forgive a lot of fit-and-finish type issues, the first couple of batches seem really underwhelming. I've never seen any statement from them that the current state of the software for the device is at the level of "basic web browsing, early power management," for instance. That sounds like an early alpha at best. Software issues are less concerning, though, since those can always be fixed/improved with updates. Accepting alpha quality hardware if you're in an early batch seems like a bigger deal. If you're in an early batch and get a hand-assembled box with parts rattling around inside, is that just what you're stuck with forever? When all the previous guidance was "this thing you paid for will ship in Q3 2019," why do you now have to make a choice between accepting an unfinished device now or getting a finished device sometime next year? I can see how offering that choice benefits Purism, but I can't see how it benefits the Purism customer. A lot of this just boils down to expectations management, which Purism hasn't been great at.
  - ocdtrekkie 7y ago
    And it sounds like most of the hardware in early batches is exterior hardware that won't be ready, so I almost wonder if it could be upgradeable later (perhaps for free/cheap?) if the internal hardware is all there. But they don't really clarify whether or not that will be the case.
    - seba_dos1 7y ago
      On Matrix it was mentioned that a FAQ that answers questions like that is coming.
      - jethro_tell 7y ago
        Probably, should have seen this coming and had that ready with today's announcement. I actually find this concerning because it's a glimpse at the bubble they must be in if they thought this announcement would stand on it's own, or if they thought that it would be welcomed with applause.
jklinger410 7y ago
>Missing deadlines, by itself, isn't that big a deal on a project like this You would think the people responsible for attempting said project would have the foresight to understand this in the first place.
m463 7y ago
I think this is the normal hardware development process, opened up to public scrutiny. I think it's reasonable - they seem to be matching expectations to groups of people. People who want better hardware and software should wait for a polished phone. People who want to develop software, or who want out of the chooise-ios-or-android problem can get an early phone with reduced expectations of perfection.
ryukafalz 7y ago
Personally, as someone who paid for one during crowdfunding, I'd be fine with one of the earlier hardware revisions. (Though probably not the very first!) I'm honestly not as worried about the state of the software as I am the hardware; the software can always be fixed later. As for the hardware... so long as it's put together well enough and runs alright, I'm pretty happy. I've been holding out for a worthy successor to my old N900 for years, and quite honestly I'd rather have something sooner that's a bit less polished than keep waiting!
- tunap 7y ago
  This announcement reminds me of thw neo900 project. I hope for a better outcome, but this announcement sounds eerily familliar. Purism seems better positioned to ship, eventually. Seeing as Q3 is almost expired, I expect a similar announcement from the Pine64 group,too. Edit: Pine 64 will ship https://www.pine64.org/2019/09/05/september-update-the-pinephone-is-real-shipping-soon/ https://www.pine64.org/2019/09/05/september-update-the-pinep...
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    If you look closer, you can see that Purism and Pine64 are actually at similar stages to each other and promise to ship similar things at similar time.

Vinnl 7y ago

I guess it might be necessary for marketing reasons, but I'd prefer if they'd just not announce deadlines. You know you're not going to make them, these things always slip, again and again. I also do not really expect them to be "what the average person would consider a finished product" by Evergreen either. As far as I understand it, this is really aimed at power users and enthusiasts willing to suffer some pain for the ability to tinker and the feeling of control over your device. Which is great, but they might've been a bit clearer on that. But ah well, I suppose mistakes are inevitable, and there'll be many more - it's a young company.

smacktoward 7y ago
Even for enthusiasts, who I agree can be willing to forgive a lot of fit-and-finish type issues, the first couple of batches seem really underwhelming. I've never seen any statement from them that the current state of the software for the device is at the level of "basic web browsing, early power management," for instance. That sounds like an early alpha at best. Software issues are less concerning, though, since those can always be fixed/improved with updates. Accepting alpha quality hardware if you're in an early batch seems like a bigger deal. If you're in an early batch and get a hand-assembled box with parts rattling around inside, is that just what you're stuck with forever? When all the previous guidance was "this thing you paid for will ship in Q3 2019," why do you now have to make a choice between accepting an unfinished device now or getting a finished device sometime next year? I can see how offering that choice benefits Purism, but I can't see how it benefits the Purism customer. A lot of this just boils down to expectations management, which Purism hasn't been great at.
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  And it sounds like most of the hardware in early batches is exterior hardware that won't be ready, so I almost wonder if it could be upgradeable later (perhaps for free/cheap?) if the internal hardware is all there. But they don't really clarify whether or not that will be the case.
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    On Matrix it was mentioned that a FAQ that answers questions like that is coming.
    - jethro_tell 7y ago
      Probably, should have seen this coming and had that ready with today's announcement. I actually find this concerning because it's a glimpse at the bubble they must be in if they thought this announcement would stand on it's own, or if they thought that it would be welcomed with applause.

jklinger410 7y ago

>Missing deadlines, by itself, isn't that big a deal on a project like this You would think the people responsible for attempting said project would have the foresight to understand this in the first place.

m463 7y ago

I think this is the normal hardware development process, opened up to public scrutiny. I think it's reasonable - they seem to be matching expectations to groups of people. People who want better hardware and software should wait for a polished phone. People who want to develop software, or who want out of the chooise-ios-or-android problem can get an early phone with reduced expectations of perfection.

ryukafalz 7y ago

Personally, as someone who paid for one during crowdfunding, I'd be fine with one of the earlier hardware revisions. (Though probably not the very first!) I'm honestly not as worried about the state of the software as I am the hardware; the software can always be fixed later. As for the hardware... so long as it's put together well enough and runs alright, I'm pretty happy. I've been holding out for a worthy successor to my old N900 for years, and quite honestly I'd rather have something sooner that's a bit less polished than keep waiting!

tunap 7y ago
This announcement reminds me of thw neo900 project. I hope for a better outcome, but this announcement sounds eerily familliar. Purism seems better positioned to ship, eventually. Seeing as Q3 is almost expired, I expect a similar announcement from the Pine64 group,too. Edit: Pine 64 will ship https://www.pine64.org/2019/09/05/september-update-the-pinephone-is-real-shipping-soon/ https://www.pine64.org/2019/09/05/september-update-the-pinep...
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  If you look closer, you can see that Purism and Pine64 are actually at similar stages to each other and promise to ship similar things at similar time.