11 ms·

Librem 5 Shipping Announcement

188 points by gnufx 7y ago

Vinnl 7y ago
Some pictures (/mock-ups?) here: https://social.librem.one/@purism/102740815257018934 https://social.librem.one/@purism/102740815257018934
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Looks a bit chunky…does anyone have a good side view shot?
  - jolmg 7y ago
    Looks a bit modular. Seems you can change the WiFi card. I wonder what's that other exchangeable bit to the right of it?
    - ocdtrekkie 7y ago
      The WWAN/LTE card is replaceable. An incredibly nice trade-off for a little extra thickness.
  - 1023bytes 7y ago
    It will definitely be very chunky if they fit 2 MPCI modules on there
  - kd3 7y ago
    Looks chunky indeed but I like it. Tired of the fucking thin and light phones everyone else is selling that easily want to slip out of my hand. I hope this has a heavy and metal feel to it.
    - stronglikedan 7y ago
      For those of us suffering from Noassatall, who cannot comfortably carry anything in our back pockets, a thin phone fits nicely in the same front pocket as a wallet, without getting scratched up by the keys in the other front pocket. I too would like a heavy phone, but I think it could be thin and heavy if made from the right metal, instead of glass and plastic.
      - aidenn0 7y ago
        I carried a palm pre in my front pocket 10 years ago, it was probably thicker than this phone (though also much smaller diagonally).
        stronglikedan 7y ago
        That, and my Treos before it, went in my pocket with the keys, but that was the last one to do so. They didn't build it as tough as the Treos, so it didn't last long.
buzzert 7y ago
Funny coincidence (?) naming the first batch Aspen, which was the code name for iPhone OS 1.0.
- saagarjha 7y ago
  Unfortunately it looks like they picked Aspen, the wood, rather than Aspen, the ski resort. (Also, wasn't iPhone OS 1.0 code-named Alpine?)
  - katmannthree 7y ago
    Iirc Alpine was the default root password on early versions of iOS
    - saagarjha 7y ago
      "alpine" is actually the current password for root (and mobile) on iOS. The earliest versions of iOS used "dottie" as the password, AFAIK.
bhhaskin 7y ago
I am very excited for this phone, but I am not sure about this approach. I think it will cause a lot of people to wait for the v2 release.
- katmannthree 7y ago
  As someone who placed their order recently, I am totally fine with that if it opens up the possibility of people who ordered late to get their hands on one sooner. I don't mind having to tweak component alignment and update via the terminal (and maybe update keycaps?). I think people who are afraid of effectively being beta testers are going to have a tough time with a full-on linux phone whether they get one now or after another year of development.
  - bhhaskin 7y ago
    I am perfectly fine tweaking software, but getting an unfinished hardware build is pretty hard to swallow for the price. This isn't a dev build either, it is supposed to be the final end product. To me it sounds like they are trying to release an unfinished product so they don't miss their ship date again. I would much rather have the ship date pushed out and get the finalize hardware.
    - katmannthree 7y ago
      >I would much rather have the ship date pushed out and get the finalize hardware. Then isn't this the best of both worlds since they give you exactly that option?
  - jethro_tell 7y ago
    This sounds like beta testers is too generous. It looks to me like the finished phone next year will be beta testers by any reasonable measure.
- rabidrat 7y ago
  I am in this boat. However, I've been waiting for this phone for so long, that I've regressed to a flip phone since my previous phone broke and I was unwilling to buy another smart phone since the Librem was coming out in only a few months. So I appreciate the published schedule, it allows me to weigh the pros and cons of getting the phone earlier vs having the benefit of getting some of the kinks worked out. It seems that the hardware won't change much except for mechanicals, so at this point I'm thinking I'll wait for the second iteration just because there's always something with the first one :)
letstrynvm 7y ago
Wish them all the best, but I tried the latest firmwate image on my dev kit last week and although there's plenty of progress, many things are not there, at least on that image + platform combination. No lte, no wifi, browser scrolls at ~10fps, browser crashes, display has some hw jittering if you look closely. I guess some of these are solved on the production hw (they use a different lte module) but still, only consider it if you have a pain threshold or have booked to go into hypersleep for 18 mo.
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  But LTE and WiFi work just fine on my devkit?
  - letstrynvm 7y ago
    What did you do to get them working? I flashed the latest image and no sign of them, even with a valid SIM.
    - seba_dos1 7y ago
      The UI is being reworked right now to better fit the screen, but it's generally there in GNOME Settings (latest changes broke the password field and I think it's not restored yet, but you can fill it in by editing NetworkManager's config anyway). For LTE you just have to set the correct APN. I've just connected to the internet with LTE to test it and it worked; and I'm using WiFi connection daily. Make sure your kill switches actually turn WiFi and LTE on. Also, the modem is generally way more stable when used with battery inserted, as USB might not be able to supply enough current.
      - ncmncm 7y ago
        Turning on power switches to the chips is pretty important! It gives a hint about how manufacturing is, that the switch tops come out so late.
  - noarchy 7y ago
mattl 7y ago
I fear this is going to be OpenMoko all over again.
RandomBacon 7y ago
I'm tempted to get the earliest batch I can, and then purchase a second phone for v2. I'm a little disapointed the process hasn't been as smooth as I would have hoped, however I feel that is completely offset by the new type of product we're getting.
- fractalf 7y ago
  I was thinking just the same! :) My main reason for buying this phone (which I have) is to support this movement. To support a hope that the phone platform (which arguably will grow grow grow to be the main future platform) can have a proper FOSS platform. I HATE that all I can choose from is iOS (apple) and Android (Google). Just imagine where the world would be without Linux.
balaksakrionon 7y ago
does the contacts app support carddav? I am thinking birch or chestnut sounds fun
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  It's just GNOME Contacts. Yes, it does.
smacktoward 7y ago
This is a... puzzling announcement. It certainly reflects a departure from their previously announced shipping window, which back in May they "adjusted" (the word they used at the time) from Q2 2019 to Q3 (see https://puri.sm/posts/massive-progress-exact-cpu-selected-minor-shipping-adjustment/ https://puri.sm/posts/massive-progress-exact-cpu-selected-mi...). And certainly back then they weren't saying anything about Q3 2019 being the start of a year-long iterative release cycle, it was just that the product would ship in Q3 2019, full stop. A cynical interpretation: it sounds like all the batches until "Batch Evergreen" (due Q2 2020) will be of less-than-general-release quality, with each batch getting a bit closer to what the average person would consider a finished product until Evergreen reaches that mark. So one reading of this announcement would be that release of the actual, finished Librem 5 product has now slipped again, this time to mid-2020 -- but they didn't want to just come out and, you know, say that. So instead they've created this "iterative release schedule" so they can say they're shipping something in Q3 2019, even though the actual thing they'll be shipping then isn't going to even be close to what the average person would consider a finished, release-quality product ("loose fit, varying alignment, unfinished switch caps... basic web browsing, early power management"). I like Purism and am generally supportive of what they've been trying to do with this device. But this persistent pattern of (1) slipping deadlines and then (2) announcing that the deadline has slipped in ways that seem calculated to obscure that fact is really troubling. Missing deadlines, by itself, isn't that big a deal on a project like this -- they're trying to do something big and unique, it's understandable if that takes longer than expected. But if you're going to miss a deadline, I'd rather you just say you missed it and give updated guidance, rather than trying to convince me that isn't what actually happened. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
- Vinnl 7y ago
  I guess it might be necessary for marketing reasons, but I'd prefer if they'd just not announce deadlines. You know you're not going to make them, these things always slip, again and again. I also do not really expect them to be "what the average person would consider a finished product" by Evergreen either. As far as I understand it, this is really aimed at power users and enthusiasts willing to suffer some pain for the ability to tinker and the feeling of control over your device. Which is great, but they might've been a bit clearer on that. But ah well, I suppose mistakes are inevitable, and there'll be many more - it's a young company.
kungito 7y ago
I guess this is both a way for them to pressure themselves to finally release no matter the cost because with a thing like this I believe they could go for years without considering it "ready ready". They have way less resources than other big corps when they entered the business. Also I guess this will provide many new testers to make the repro-identify-fix loop.
tdewitt 7y ago
Well, I'm out. This is disappointing and is starting to have a pretty bad vapor smell. I shelled out the change for a presale but thevpruce difference isn't worth it for unfinished hardware. I'll check back in for v2 but for now I'm thinking a dumb phone will be the way to go. I with them all the best and appreciate the announcement but with all the delays and now a timeline showing just how far from a finished product they are, my confidence is low.
- mike-cardwell 7y ago
  "vapor" ... they just said they're shipping the first phones in 19 days...
  - tdewitt 7y ago
    I'll clarify: The batch of phones going out in 19 days is not a finished product. It's expected to be loose fitting, not have endcaps on the switches, not have properly functioning power management and updates have to be done using a terminal. That's beta hardware, at best. The next few iterations are improvements on the beta hardware but still not yet a finished product until Evergreen. That speculatively Q2 2020 but they've been off by miles with all the previous delivery dates so I won't hold my breath. Until that hardware comes out, which is what a consumer grade product should be, the only hardware delivered will be various levels of beta/release candidate. By then, you might as well wait a few months for the hardware refresh. I appreciate the goal and the work done and if the hardware was polished and all the pain points were software, I'd be singing a different tune. Software can be fixed after the fact but poor fit and finish on hardware is forever. (And I've been Linux-as-a-desktop since the latter half of the 90s, so I can take a lot of pain. I'm all in on a Linux phone but I'll go buy a dumb phone while I wait for v2.)
tcd 7y ago
One of my concerns about this is fragmentation. They've essentially announced 6 different phones released over a staggered time period. Will all batches get updates for the same duration? Will they all get same day software releases? How about support? Will there be subtle differences that cause headaches? If you opt for one revision over another and that has issues, what's the process going to be to handle that case? Rather than just having a single shipping device with a fixed design they're going to incrementally change it, and I fear it's going to be an absolute disaster. I think if you visit this comment in exactly a year's time I'll probably be right, and it'd hardly be a surprise. I absolutely agree with smacktoward, they're doing this to hide the fact they're simply not ready, but instead opening a can of worms that could devastate the entire project. Not a fan of this, you can only hope this is the right move forward.
- seba_dos1 7y ago
  Most phones are incrementally changed like that (aside of the case maybe, that's unusual), it's just usually not announced publicly. Aside of the v2 at the end of the schedule, this is all about multiple batches of a single model (and even v2 probably won't have a separate software distribution - I would expect just a different bootloader to flash).
  - tcd 7y ago
    That still doesn't answer the question of the fact there _will_ be different models and how that affects software support. For example, Chestnut says: "improved power management", will all previous models get that? In Birch it says "Next run of board", are there changes that change the software in any way? Evergreen is the "LTS" release, do the others not get "LTS"? In Q4 2020 there's a new CPU, does that affect drivers or software in any way? Will they provide software updates for all devices for a number of years? You'd hope opting for Model 1 2019 doesn't punish you but I can't see how they have the resources for testing every single model for every single software release. It's not a good idea in the long run. Not even Google would do something like that and nor should a smaller company, it's idiotic.
    - 7y ago
m0zg 7y ago
Protip: when putting out a shipping announcement, put some product shots somewhere near the top. Attention spans on the Internet being what they are, I'm not reading three screenfuls of text to find out what it is you're shipping.
squiggleblaz 7y ago
So much negative in here! I mean, anyone who thought these were going to hit the market like an iPhone was always in for a rough surprise. We're talking small companies trying to run in a marketplace almost exclusively occupied by mega multinationals. I'm really excited to see not just one but potentially two open phones around the corner. I really wish I wasn't about to move overseas so I could buy one (more likely, both), but as soon as I know where I'm living I will!
negative_zero 7y ago
I think there is an unfair amount of negativity in here and would like to offer an insiders perspective: I have worked 11 years in product development in various roles (Hardware, Test, Production, Firmware and Mechanical often simultaneously). I can confidently tell you that this is how product development is in the real world (even amongst the big players). This schedule puri.sm publised is something you would never normally see, but I guarantee you exists for every product. This is why, even though I am a lover of technology, I am not an early adopter. I normally buy a product when it has been on the market for 6-12 months as, in my expirience at least, you are on about revision 3-5 by then. The last minute changes for compliance are no longer done by hand, the first major issues from the field are fixed, mechanical tools are stable etc. I know this place is majority software engineers so here's an analogy I'm sure many can relate to: How often have you shipped software to a customer that is beta? Or even alpha? Product development is no different :)
- sulkie 7y ago
  The expressed negativity is not directed towards hardware development process, rather towards what ended up being insincere promises the team gave about the state of the product that would be shipping in Q3 2019.
  - negative_zero 7y ago
    Oh I understand that. I was just trying to communicate that: their latest promise was to start shipping final hardware to people Q3 2019 and Bach Aspen is exactly that. I actually give them kudos for allowing people to choose what batch they receive. I specifically did not pre-order because I don't want an early batch of hardware of any product. Had I know I would get a choice I would have pre-ordered.
    - ncmncm 7y ago
      You still can.
Lex-2008 7y ago
I find it amusing how perfectly they align with PinePhone[1] - first batch in September (with some drawbacks), final product Q2 2020, both blog posts released on Sept 5th. [1]: https://www.pine64.org/2019/09/05/september-update-the-pinephone-is-real-shipping-soon/ https://www.pine64.org/2019/09/05/september-update-the-pinep...
teddyh 7y ago
> And we are compliant with, and submitting for, the “Respects Your Freedom” certification from the Free Software Foundation. This is huge. Let’s see if they get certified.

188 points by gnufx 7y ago

Some pictures (/mock-ups?) here: https://social.librem.one/@purism/102740815257018934 https://social.librem.one/@purism/102740815257018934

saagarjha 7y ago
Looks a bit chunky…does anyone have a good side view shot?
- jolmg 7y ago
  Looks a bit modular. Seems you can change the WiFi card. I wonder what's that other exchangeable bit to the right of it?
  - ocdtrekkie 7y ago
    The WWAN/LTE card is replaceable. An incredibly nice trade-off for a little extra thickness.
- 1023bytes 7y ago
  It will definitely be very chunky if they fit 2 MPCI modules on there
- kd3 7y ago
  Looks chunky indeed but I like it. Tired of the fucking thin and light phones everyone else is selling that easily want to slip out of my hand. I hope this has a heavy and metal feel to it.
  - stronglikedan 7y ago
    For those of us suffering from Noassatall, who cannot comfortably carry anything in our back pockets, a thin phone fits nicely in the same front pocket as a wallet, without getting scratched up by the keys in the other front pocket. I too would like a heavy phone, but I think it could be thin and heavy if made from the right metal, instead of glass and plastic.
    - aidenn0 7y ago
      I carried a palm pre in my front pocket 10 years ago, it was probably thicker than this phone (though also much smaller diagonally).
      - stronglikedan 7y ago
        That, and my Treos before it, went in my pocket with the keys, but that was the last one to do so. They didn't build it as tough as the Treos, so it didn't last long.

buzzert 7y ago

Funny coincidence (?) naming the first batch Aspen, which was the code name for iPhone OS 1.0.

saagarjha 7y ago
Unfortunately it looks like they picked Aspen, the wood, rather than Aspen, the ski resort. (Also, wasn't iPhone OS 1.0 code-named Alpine?)
- katmannthree 7y ago
  Iirc Alpine was the default root password on early versions of iOS
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    "alpine" is actually the current password for root (and mobile) on iOS. The earliest versions of iOS used "dottie" as the password, AFAIK.

bhhaskin 7y ago

I am very excited for this phone, but I am not sure about this approach. I think it will cause a lot of people to wait for the v2 release.

katmannthree 7y ago
As someone who placed their order recently, I am totally fine with that if it opens up the possibility of people who ordered late to get their hands on one sooner. I don't mind having to tweak component alignment and update via the terminal (and maybe update keycaps?). I think people who are afraid of effectively being beta testers are going to have a tough time with a full-on linux phone whether they get one now or after another year of development.
- bhhaskin 7y ago
  I am perfectly fine tweaking software, but getting an unfinished hardware build is pretty hard to swallow for the price. This isn't a dev build either, it is supposed to be the final end product. To me it sounds like they are trying to release an unfinished product so they don't miss their ship date again. I would much rather have the ship date pushed out and get the finalize hardware.
  - katmannthree 7y ago
    >I would much rather have the ship date pushed out and get the finalize hardware. Then isn't this the best of both worlds since they give you exactly that option?
- jethro_tell 7y ago
  This sounds like beta testers is too generous. It looks to me like the finished phone next year will be beta testers by any reasonable measure.
rabidrat 7y ago
I am in this boat. However, I've been waiting for this phone for so long, that I've regressed to a flip phone since my previous phone broke and I was unwilling to buy another smart phone since the Librem was coming out in only a few months. So I appreciate the published schedule, it allows me to weigh the pros and cons of getting the phone earlier vs having the benefit of getting some of the kinks worked out. It seems that the hardware won't change much except for mechanicals, so at this point I'm thinking I'll wait for the second iteration just because there's always something with the first one :)

letstrynvm 7y ago

Wish them all the best, but I tried the latest firmwate image on my dev kit last week and although there's plenty of progress, many things are not there, at least on that image + platform combination. No lte, no wifi, browser scrolls at ~10fps, browser crashes, display has some hw jittering if you look closely. I guess some of these are solved on the production hw (they use a different lte module) but still, only consider it if you have a pain threshold or have booked to go into hypersleep for 18 mo.

seba_dos1 7y ago
But LTE and WiFi work just fine on my devkit?
- letstrynvm 7y ago
  What did you do to get them working? I flashed the latest image and no sign of them, even with a valid SIM.
  - seba_dos1 7y ago
    The UI is being reworked right now to better fit the screen, but it's generally there in GNOME Settings (latest changes broke the password field and I think it's not restored yet, but you can fill it in by editing NetworkManager's config anyway). For LTE you just have to set the correct APN. I've just connected to the internet with LTE to test it and it worked; and I'm using WiFi connection daily. Make sure your kill switches actually turn WiFi and LTE on. Also, the modem is generally way more stable when used with battery inserted, as USB might not be able to supply enough current.
    - ncmncm 7y ago
      Turning on power switches to the chips is pretty important! It gives a hint about how manufacturing is, that the switch tops come out so late.
- noarchy 7y ago

mattl 7y ago

I fear this is going to be OpenMoko all over again.

RandomBacon 7y ago

I'm tempted to get the earliest batch I can, and then purchase a second phone for v2. I'm a little disapointed the process hasn't been as smooth as I would have hoped, however I feel that is completely offset by the new type of product we're getting.

fractalf 7y ago
I was thinking just the same! :) My main reason for buying this phone (which I have) is to support this movement. To support a hope that the phone platform (which arguably will grow grow grow to be the main future platform) can have a proper FOSS platform. I HATE that all I can choose from is iOS (apple) and Android (Google). Just imagine where the world would be without Linux.

balaksakrionon 7y ago

does the contacts app support carddav? I am thinking birch or chestnut sounds fun

seba_dos1 7y ago
It's just GNOME Contacts. Yes, it does.

smacktoward 7y ago

This is a... puzzling announcement. It certainly reflects a departure from their previously announced shipping window, which back in May they "adjusted" (the word they used at the time) from Q2 2019 to Q3 (see https://puri.sm/posts/massive-progress-exact-cpu-selected-minor-shipping-adjustment/ https://puri.sm/posts/massive-progress-exact-cpu-selected-mi...). And certainly back then they weren't saying anything about Q3 2019 being the start of a year-long iterative release cycle, it was just that the product would ship in Q3 2019, full stop. A cynical interpretation: it sounds like all the batches until "Batch Evergreen" (due Q2 2020) will be of less-than-general-release quality, with each batch getting a bit closer to what the average person would consider a finished product until Evergreen reaches that mark. So one reading of this announcement would be that release of the actual, finished Librem 5 product has now slipped again, this time to mid-2020 -- but they didn't want to just come out and, you know, say that. So instead they've created this "iterative release schedule" so they can say they're shipping something in Q3 2019, even though the actual thing they'll be shipping then isn't going to even be close to what the average person would consider a finished, release-quality product ("loose fit, varying alignment, unfinished switch caps... basic web browsing, early power management"). I like Purism and am generally supportive of what they've been trying to do with this device. But this persistent pattern of (1) slipping deadlines and then (2) announcing that the deadline has slipped in ways that seem calculated to obscure that fact is really troubling. Missing deadlines, by itself, isn't that big a deal on a project like this -- they're trying to do something big and unique, it's understandable if that takes longer than expected. But if you're going to miss a deadline, I'd rather you just say you missed it and give updated guidance, rather than trying to convince me that isn't what actually happened. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Vinnl 7y ago
I guess it might be necessary for marketing reasons, but I'd prefer if they'd just not announce deadlines. You know you're not going to make them, these things always slip, again and again. I also do not really expect them to be "what the average person would consider a finished product" by Evergreen either. As far as I understand it, this is really aimed at power users and enthusiasts willing to suffer some pain for the ability to tinker and the feeling of control over your device. Which is great, but they might've been a bit clearer on that. But ah well, I suppose mistakes are inevitable, and there'll be many more - it's a young company.

kungito 7y ago

I guess this is both a way for them to pressure themselves to finally release no matter the cost because with a thing like this I believe they could go for years without considering it "ready ready". They have way less resources than other big corps when they entered the business. Also I guess this will provide many new testers to make the repro-identify-fix loop.

tdewitt 7y ago

Well, I'm out. This is disappointing and is starting to have a pretty bad vapor smell. I shelled out the change for a presale but thevpruce difference isn't worth it for unfinished hardware. I'll check back in for v2 but for now I'm thinking a dumb phone will be the way to go. I with them all the best and appreciate the announcement but with all the delays and now a timeline showing just how far from a finished product they are, my confidence is low.

mike-cardwell 7y ago
"vapor" ... they just said they're shipping the first phones in 19 days...
- tdewitt 7y ago
  I'll clarify: The batch of phones going out in 19 days is not a finished product. It's expected to be loose fitting, not have endcaps on the switches, not have properly functioning power management and updates have to be done using a terminal. That's beta hardware, at best. The next few iterations are improvements on the beta hardware but still not yet a finished product until Evergreen. That speculatively Q2 2020 but they've been off by miles with all the previous delivery dates so I won't hold my breath. Until that hardware comes out, which is what a consumer grade product should be, the only hardware delivered will be various levels of beta/release candidate. By then, you might as well wait a few months for the hardware refresh. I appreciate the goal and the work done and if the hardware was polished and all the pain points were software, I'd be singing a different tune. Software can be fixed after the fact but poor fit and finish on hardware is forever. (And I've been Linux-as-a-desktop since the latter half of the 90s, so I can take a lot of pain. I'm all in on a Linux phone but I'll go buy a dumb phone while I wait for v2.)

tcd 7y ago

One of my concerns about this is fragmentation. They've essentially announced 6 different phones released over a staggered time period. Will all batches get updates for the same duration? Will they all get same day software releases? How about support? Will there be subtle differences that cause headaches? If you opt for one revision over another and that has issues, what's the process going to be to handle that case? Rather than just having a single shipping device with a fixed design they're going to incrementally change it, and I fear it's going to be an absolute disaster. I think if you visit this comment in exactly a year's time I'll probably be right, and it'd hardly be a surprise. I absolutely agree with smacktoward, they're doing this to hide the fact they're simply not ready, but instead opening a can of worms that could devastate the entire project. Not a fan of this, you can only hope this is the right move forward.

seba_dos1 7y ago
Most phones are incrementally changed like that (aside of the case maybe, that's unusual), it's just usually not announced publicly. Aside of the v2 at the end of the schedule, this is all about multiple batches of a single model (and even v2 probably won't have a separate software distribution - I would expect just a different bootloader to flash).
- tcd 7y ago
  That still doesn't answer the question of the fact there _will_ be different models and how that affects software support. For example, Chestnut says: "improved power management", will all previous models get that? In Birch it says "Next run of board", are there changes that change the software in any way? Evergreen is the "LTS" release, do the others not get "LTS"? In Q4 2020 there's a new CPU, does that affect drivers or software in any way? Will they provide software updates for all devices for a number of years? You'd hope opting for Model 1 2019 doesn't punish you but I can't see how they have the resources for testing every single model for every single software release. It's not a good idea in the long run. Not even Google would do something like that and nor should a smaller company, it's idiotic.
  - 7y ago

m0zg 7y ago

Protip: when putting out a shipping announcement, put some product shots somewhere near the top. Attention spans on the Internet being what they are, I'm not reading three screenfuls of text to find out what it is you're shipping.

squiggleblaz 7y ago

So much negative in here! I mean, anyone who thought these were going to hit the market like an iPhone was always in for a rough surprise. We're talking small companies trying to run in a marketplace almost exclusively occupied by mega multinationals. I'm really excited to see not just one but potentially two open phones around the corner. I really wish I wasn't about to move overseas so I could buy one (more likely, both), but as soon as I know where I'm living I will!

negative_zero 7y ago

I think there is an unfair amount of negativity in here and would like to offer an insiders perspective: I have worked 11 years in product development in various roles (Hardware, Test, Production, Firmware and Mechanical often simultaneously). I can confidently tell you that this is how product development is in the real world (even amongst the big players). This schedule puri.sm publised is something you would never normally see, but I guarantee you exists for every product. This is why, even though I am a lover of technology, I am not an early adopter. I normally buy a product when it has been on the market for 6-12 months as, in my expirience at least, you are on about revision 3-5 by then. The last minute changes for compliance are no longer done by hand, the first major issues from the field are fixed, mechanical tools are stable etc. I know this place is majority software engineers so here's an analogy I'm sure many can relate to: How often have you shipped software to a customer that is beta? Or even alpha? Product development is no different :)

sulkie 7y ago
The expressed negativity is not directed towards hardware development process, rather towards what ended up being insincere promises the team gave about the state of the product that would be shipping in Q3 2019.
- negative_zero 7y ago
  Oh I understand that. I was just trying to communicate that: their latest promise was to start shipping final hardware to people Q3 2019 and Bach Aspen is exactly that. I actually give them kudos for allowing people to choose what batch they receive. I specifically did not pre-order because I don't want an early batch of hardware of any product. Had I know I would get a choice I would have pre-ordered.
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    You still can.

Lex-2008 7y ago

I find it amusing how perfectly they align with PinePhone[1] - first batch in September (with some drawbacks), final product Q2 2020, both blog posts released on Sept 5th. [1]: https://www.pine64.org/2019/09/05/september-update-the-pinephone-is-real-shipping-soon/ https://www.pine64.org/2019/09/05/september-update-the-pinep...

teddyh 7y ago

> And we are compliant with, and submitting for, the “Respects Your Freedom” certification from the Free Software Foundation. This is huge. Let’s see if they get certified.