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> We can't afford to undermine the economy. Heh. This is such a brilliant phrase that perfectly encapsulates everything that is wrong. We can't afford to not

> We can't afford to undermine the economy. Heh. This is such a brilliant phrase that perfectly encapsulates everything that is wrong. We can't afford to not afford things. :D

musingsole 7y ago
It's the same argument the US south made for keeping and perpetuating slavery.
- chiefalchemist 7y ago
  To clarify: It's not __my__ argument. I'm simply saying that the powers that be are maintaining the status quo because its what keeps them in power. I'd like to add, I put "leader" in quotes but what should be done is something real leaders do. They're willing and able. Instead, we have people in charge who are no leaders, and thus we don't get leader-esque action from them. Essentially, the spineless leading the mindless.
TeMPOraL 7y ago
No, it's actually very much right. We can push the economy a bit. We can try to replace the more emission-intensive aspects of it. But we cannot do it too hard - because if we break the economy, that's quite literally game over. After humanity emerges from ensuing wars, famines and starvation, the survivors will be left stuck with medieval-era technology on a thoroughly broken planet. I have this feeling that people forget that economy isn't just zeroes on the accounts of bank executives; it's the food on the table of everyone, it's the medicine and the running water, and everything that keeps civilization together. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, and even more so, let's not replace the bathwater with gasoline and set it on fire.
- esotericn 7y ago
  Sure, but the idea that it's untouchable is absurd. Everything changes. The economy was different last year, in 2010, in 1950 and so on. The country I grew up in is very different to the one that exists today. Change is constant. No-one is talking about burning it down, the idea is more that the exceptional growth of the past few decades has likely overshot what is sustainable.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    I'm not saying it's untouchable, just that it needs to be handled with care. Think of it as doing live repair on a running engine of your airplane, mid-flight. You can do it if you're careful, but if you break it, we all die, and the airplane isn't going to fly anywhere anytime soon. In particular, ideas like "we need to halt economic growth ASAP" I sometimes see in climate change threads are essentially suicidal.
  - chiefalchemist 7y ago
    " the idea is more that the exceptional growth of the past few decades has likely overshot what is sustainable." So you're running for office?, what's your tagline: "Vote for me, because they got it wrong. I'll fix the economy so that relative to expectations it underperforms like I believe it should."? Wall Street with not donate to your campaign. No one will vote for you. I'm not disagreeing with you. Simply pointing out We The People have a history of not supporting such things.

> We can't afford to undermine the economy. Heh. This is such a brilliant phrase that perfectly encapsulates everything that is wrong. We can't afford to not afford things. :D

musingsole 7y ago

It's the same argument the US south made for keeping and perpetuating slavery.

chiefalchemist 7y ago
To clarify: It's not __my__ argument. I'm simply saying that the powers that be are maintaining the status quo because its what keeps them in power. I'd like to add, I put "leader" in quotes but what should be done is something real leaders do. They're willing and able. Instead, we have people in charge who are no leaders, and thus we don't get leader-esque action from them. Essentially, the spineless leading the mindless.

TeMPOraL 7y ago

No, it's actually very much right. We can push the economy a bit. We can try to replace the more emission-intensive aspects of it. But we cannot do it too hard - because if we break the economy, that's quite literally game over. After humanity emerges from ensuing wars, famines and starvation, the survivors will be left stuck with medieval-era technology on a thoroughly broken planet. I have this feeling that people forget that economy isn't just zeroes on the accounts of bank executives; it's the food on the table of everyone, it's the medicine and the running water, and everything that keeps civilization together. Let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, and even more so, let's not replace the bathwater with gasoline and set it on fire.

esotericn 7y ago
Sure, but the idea that it's untouchable is absurd. Everything changes. The economy was different last year, in 2010, in 1950 and so on. The country I grew up in is very different to the one that exists today. Change is constant. No-one is talking about burning it down, the idea is more that the exceptional growth of the past few decades has likely overshot what is sustainable.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  I'm not saying it's untouchable, just that it needs to be handled with care. Think of it as doing live repair on a running engine of your airplane, mid-flight. You can do it if you're careful, but if you break it, we all die, and the airplane isn't going to fly anywhere anytime soon. In particular, ideas like "we need to halt economic growth ASAP" I sometimes see in climate change threads are essentially suicidal.
- chiefalchemist 7y ago
  " the idea is more that the exceptional growth of the past few decades has likely overshot what is sustainable." So you're running for office?, what's your tagline: "Vote for me, because they got it wrong. I'll fix the economy so that relative to expectations it underperforms like I believe it should."? Wall Street with not donate to your campaign. No one will vote for you. I'm not disagreeing with you. Simply pointing out We The People have a history of not supporting such things.