3 ms·

Maybe the only reason the american gov't isn't as bad as the chinese gov't is that we can, in fact, defend ourselves.

krapp 7y ago
Yes, that is literally the only reason. It's not because of the differences in culture, or the nature and history of governance, or any other possible externality. The only reason the US is not a totalitarian state where dissenters are run over by tanks and sent to death camps is because the American government is simply terrified of and quelled by the mere presence of an armed populace. I have a magical rock in my garden that repels tigers. I never see any tigers in my garden, so it must work.
- wpdev_63 7y ago
  I mean correlation does not mean causation but the gov't keeps upping the black budget every year and we all know what they do in those gov't basements... It's just a matter of time that industrial factory overflows and spills blood on the streets. If the gov't was going to put you in a camp because you were jewish or japanese or even muslim, wouldn't you want to have a gun? I know it would make them think twice that's for sure.
  - krapp 7y ago
    >If the gov't was going to put you in a camp because you were jewish or japanese or even muslim, wouldn't you want to have a gun? Sure. But of course, the Second Amendment was a thing when the government from rounding up the Japanese, with popular support. Hell, after 9/11 much of the gun-owning community would have supported rounding up all of the Muslims into camps. Currently, they don't seem to be too upset about the government aggressively rounding up immigrants. I don't agree with the premise that government can never be trusted, but an armed mob always can. The world has plenty of democratic states which seem to function without an armed populace keeping them in check. >I know it would make them think twice that's for sure. It wouldn't stop them, though.
    - wpdev_63 7y ago
      >Sure. But of course, the Second Amendment was a thing when the government from rounding up the Japanese, with popular support. I guess, maybe the people didn't exercise their rights. >Hell, after 9/11 much of the gun-owning community would have supported rounding up all of the Muslims into camps. Currently, they don't seem to be too upset about the government aggressively rounding up immigrants. You can absolutely be on the left and believe in the right to bear arms. Fighting for our constitutional rights is not a partisan issue. >I don't agree with the premise that government can never be trusted, but an armed mob always can. The world has plenty of democratic states which seem to function without an armed populace keeping them in check. Another name for an armed mob is called a militia. They were formed when we fought against 'taxation without representation'. >It wouldn't stop them, though. Maybe, the only time I can think off of the top of my head of a government subjugating a well armed people was the english/american civil war. Regardless, I would absolutely exercise my right to bear arms if mao/stalin/hitler gov't came knocking on my door.
      - krapp 7y ago
        >I guess, maybe the people didn't exercise their rights. They didn't want to, that was the general point of my comment. American gun owners aren't a guaranteed bulwark against tyranny - they're just as likely to welcome and defend it, if their ideology supports it. >You can absolutely be on the left and believe in the right to bear arms. Fighting for our constitutional rights is not a partisan issue. I have yet to meet an NRA member (and granted, I haven't met them all) who doesn't believe the American left poses an active threat to their right to keep and bear arms, and who wouldn't consider a "pro 2nd Amendment leftist" to be a contradiction in terms. In theory, you're correct. In practice, thanks to the success of the NRA and Republican party, American gun culture (at least the activist part of it) has become synonymous with conservative, right-wing identity politics.
        CompanionCuuube 7y ago
        > They didn't want to, that was the general point of my comment. American gun owners aren't a guaranteed bulwark against tyranny - they're just as likely to welcome and defend it, if their ideology supports it. > I have yet to meet an NRA member (and granted, I haven't met them all) who doesn't believe the American left poses an active threat to their right to keep and bear arms, and who wouldn't consider a "pro 2nd Amendment leftist" to be a contradiction in terms. Your first statement proves the importance of having the right to keep and bear arms be upheld in the "American left". And you will probably run into many in the Democratic party who think being a "pro 2nd Amendment leftist" is a contradiction in terms too.
benwad 7y ago
There are plenty of governments that are less authoritarian than China where the citizens have no right to own guns.

Yes, that is literally the only reason. It's not because of the differences in culture, or the nature and history of governance, or any other possible externality. The only reason the US is not a totalitarian state where dissenters are run over by tanks and sent to death camps is because the American government is simply terrified of and quelled by the mere presence of an armed populace. I have a magical rock in my garden that repels tigers. I never see any tigers in my garden, so it must work.

wpdev_63 7y ago
I mean correlation does not mean causation but the gov't keeps upping the black budget every year and we all know what they do in those gov't basements... It's just a matter of time that industrial factory overflows and spills blood on the streets. If the gov't was going to put you in a camp because you were jewish or japanese or even muslim, wouldn't you want to have a gun? I know it would make them think twice that's for sure.
- krapp 7y ago
  >If the gov't was going to put you in a camp because you were jewish or japanese or even muslim, wouldn't you want to have a gun? Sure. But of course, the Second Amendment was a thing when the government from rounding up the Japanese, with popular support. Hell, after 9/11 much of the gun-owning community would have supported rounding up all of the Muslims into camps. Currently, they don't seem to be too upset about the government aggressively rounding up immigrants. I don't agree with the premise that government can never be trusted, but an armed mob always can. The world has plenty of democratic states which seem to function without an armed populace keeping them in check. >I know it would make them think twice that's for sure. It wouldn't stop them, though.
  - wpdev_63 7y ago
    >Sure. But of course, the Second Amendment was a thing when the government from rounding up the Japanese, with popular support. I guess, maybe the people didn't exercise their rights. >Hell, after 9/11 much of the gun-owning community would have supported rounding up all of the Muslims into camps. Currently, they don't seem to be too upset about the government aggressively rounding up immigrants. You can absolutely be on the left and believe in the right to bear arms. Fighting for our constitutional rights is not a partisan issue. >I don't agree with the premise that government can never be trusted, but an armed mob always can. The world has plenty of democratic states which seem to function without an armed populace keeping them in check. Another name for an armed mob is called a militia. They were formed when we fought against 'taxation without representation'. >It wouldn't stop them, though. Maybe, the only time I can think off of the top of my head of a government subjugating a well armed people was the english/american civil war. Regardless, I would absolutely exercise my right to bear arms if mao/stalin/hitler gov't came knocking on my door.
    - krapp 7y ago
      >I guess, maybe the people didn't exercise their rights. They didn't want to, that was the general point of my comment. American gun owners aren't a guaranteed bulwark against tyranny - they're just as likely to welcome and defend it, if their ideology supports it. >You can absolutely be on the left and believe in the right to bear arms. Fighting for our constitutional rights is not a partisan issue. I have yet to meet an NRA member (and granted, I haven't met them all) who doesn't believe the American left poses an active threat to their right to keep and bear arms, and who wouldn't consider a "pro 2nd Amendment leftist" to be a contradiction in terms. In theory, you're correct. In practice, thanks to the success of the NRA and Republican party, American gun culture (at least the activist part of it) has become synonymous with conservative, right-wing identity politics.
      - CompanionCuuube 7y ago
        > They didn't want to, that was the general point of my comment. American gun owners aren't a guaranteed bulwark against tyranny - they're just as likely to welcome and defend it, if their ideology supports it. > I have yet to meet an NRA member (and granted, I haven't met them all) who doesn't believe the American left poses an active threat to their right to keep and bear arms, and who wouldn't consider a "pro 2nd Amendment leftist" to be a contradiction in terms. Your first statement proves the importance of having the right to keep and bear arms be upheld in the "American left". And you will probably run into many in the Democratic party who think being a "pro 2nd Amendment leftist" is a contradiction in terms too.

benwad 7y ago

There are plenty of governments that are less authoritarian than China where the citizens have no right to own guns.